[E220]Welcome Home: Support For A New Placement

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Welcome, you guys, to the Empowered to Connect podcast. This is Tana Ottinger and I'm joined today in studio with Jesse and Becca. And we are so delighted to come together. This is the first time we've been back in studio together in just a little while. So we're going to jump in and talk about a concept and topic that's near and dear to all of our hearts. And it's basically the idea of welcoming home a new placement, which has been a shared experience that all of us have had as adoptive moms. And so there's so much complexity to think about if you have walked the road of adoption or foster care at all, or if you were right at the beginning of thinking about this journey. We want to think about those that first beginning of time together as we're starting that relationship and welcoming a child into our home or family. If maybe you are meeting the child and spending time with them and you're not home yet, which we can talk about that. But what we know to be true is there's a lot of complexity and we want to be really intentional with that time. And there's a lot of dynamics at play. Right. So there's so much happening there, both in us, in the kiddo that's processing and going through a transition and then even thinking about the ecosystem of support around us, whether that's extended family or friends or the community going around us. So we're going to dive in and kind of talk through that and pull some of that apart. So let's just jump right in if y' all don't mind. And, and we can share either some of why this is important to you. Like why do you, why do you think this conversation is important for us to have? Let's start, let's start with that. [00:01:48] Speaker C: Oh, why is it important? Well, I mean, as Tana mentioned, we have all grown families through adoption. And so I think, you know, when we were talking about this podcast idea, we all immediately were coming up with what it was like for us. And Becca is our newest adoptive mom in our midst, and so she's most recently experienced an adoption placement. But thinking through things that we are glad happened or maybe things that we would have done differently or that now that we have hindsight, you know, just gives us a different perspective. It's such a time of transition for families, for extended families too. And I think what we Know, and what makes this important is that people want to do a good job. Right? [00:02:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:43] Speaker C: If you're a grandparent, you want to do a great job welcoming home a grandchild into your family, and you want to support your child who's becoming a parent, you know, either for the first time or again. And if you're, if you're a parent first time or otherwise, you're trying to do the best you can do. And you know, we just want, we know that feeling of wanting to set everyone up for success and how can I do this the best way possible? And just also acknowledging, again, like you said, Tana, there's complexity. There's not a perfect way to do it, that there will be a lot of learning along the way. So, um, we thought it might make a good conversation between the three of us. [00:03:27] Speaker B: I think it's just such a unique experience. Becoming a parent is its own thing and that can happen so many different ways. And so I think whether you're a waiting adoptive family, whether you're a certified foster family, whether you are unexpectedly becoming a parent through kinship, there's so many different ways that kids are welcomed into families. And so, you know, why is this conversation important? I think it's just important to talk about the unique opportunities that come up when it happens through adoption or foster care. This exact time last year, my husband and I were approved as a adoptive waiting family. And so I just didn't have. I had lots of friends, but I didn't have like family members or siblings who had been in that experience. And I processed it a lot with you too. Like I processed my feelings about it. There's just a lot to unpack because it's a unique seat. And I've never had the experience of maybe being a waiting kinship family or having an unexpected. So there's lots of complexity here. But I think this conversation is important to just kind of highlight those complexities and share a little bit, like you said, Jesse, of what we've learned along the way or like in hindsight, what do we wish we knew? [00:04:44] Speaker A: What. [00:04:44] Speaker B: What do I wish I could tell my one year ago self? Those types of things. I just think it's a. It's good to always be reflective, which is something that I love about the way etc has taught me me to think is just to always take opportunities to pause and reflect back. Whether that makes us more compassionate to ourselves or the people in our lives. I think it's just a good thing to do. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah. When. If we think about. I kind of name sort of the, the people that are all part of this welcoming home of a kiddo. And I do want to talk in a second about just some of the different ways that a kid might come into a family. But I think what the reason why this episode is so important and I think maybe timely for those that are considering adoption, foster care, kinship care, maybe just in the middle of it, or even somebody who was trying to figure out how to support somebody that's going through the process is there's a lot of needs and a lot of hopes and a lot of dynamics at play in both the parent, the child that's going through some kind of a transition, and then those that want to, what you said, Jesse, like, do a good job supporting. Sometimes those needs and hopes sync up and they line up and it's just beautiful. Like, it works out so well. You have a need, somebody in your life anticipates that need, meets that need, and the child receives the care. Right. That isn't typically the way it tumbles together. Sometimes there's some. Some conflict or contradiction in the. The needs and desires and hopes are out of alignment. So I think the more we can sort of name that and even anticipate that that's probably going to happen, I think the, the better we can respond and be flexible as it's happening and maybe even name it. And to your point, Becca, show each other compassion and care. So let's take a second, if y' all don't mind, and let's just hit some overview. What. Just talk. Let's talk through some of the types of placements that people might be anticipating or thinking through. And then what are some of the dynamics at play there? Becca, do you want to just kick us off with some of the types of placements? [00:06:57] Speaker B: Sure. There's lots of different types of adoption. One of them is infant adoption. So that's the legal process where a person or couple becomes the permanent legal parents of a baby who wasn't born to them. Biologically, that can happen either through private agencies or through your state here in the United States. So there's a couple different pathways that that can take. And even within that type of adoption, once that adoption happens, relationships with birth families can exist kind of across a spectrum. Some are open adoptions. There's a relationship, whether that be in person or through email or some kind of communication. Some of them are semi open, where you're communicating through an agency or a third party. And then some of them are closed, where there isn't, between the biological families and the adoptive families. Another type of adoption within that is international adoption. And that can happen whether it be with infants or older children. And that process is similar in terms of you go through a home study and you get kind of approved as a family. But then there's definitely some more complexity of you're going to have to figure out traveling to go to the child. You're going to have to figure out court proceedings in another country. And so there's a lot more legal things that you got to keep in mind with international adoption. There's some myths about international adoption that are pretty common. One is that all international adoptees have no surviving family members. And that's not the case. Just like in the US there's some families that need. There's some families that, that need adoption for a different reason. Another myth is that only older kids or kiddos that have some different needs or place for adoption, that's also not true. And then last but not least, there's a myth that international adoption is just a lot harder or easier than other types of adoption. Any type of adoption is tough. It's tough for everyone involved. And so all adoption involves trauma, loss and grief. And then Jesse's going to talk through like another type of adoption or welcoming a kiddo into your family. [00:09:06] Speaker C: So you also have foster care placements that are happening as well. And foster care is, I mean, it's pretty complex. And if you're in the foster care world, you are probably nodding along, right? But it is in essence a temporary court monitored service that's provided by states in the US to promote the safety and well being of children and youth. So the government is involved with that. Those key aspects are going to include kind of the temporary placement of that child. Temporary could mean as short as, you know, one day or as long as forever, depending on if parental rights are terminated. And so again, like we said, it's complex. There are a lot of unknowns in the world of foster care. There are support services involved, there's legal considerations. Usually families are showing up at court for mandated appeals appointments. And sometimes there is that transition to permanency. And so lots going on there. But the challenges, you're kind of existing in this triad of biological family, child and foster family. And that relationship looks different in this, similar to infant adoption. Sometimes there are lots of visits and close communication, sometimes there's not. It just kind of depends on what is happening with that placement and the situation. In addition, there is kinship care and kinship adoption that exists as well. And that's when there's a temporary or permanent placement of a child with relatives or family friends. And that's happening when the child cannot live with their biological parents. And so that might be, for example, when a grandparent becomes the legal guardian of a grandchild, or maybe a close family friend becomes the legal guardian of a child. And they're aiming to maintain those family connections and minimize trauma for the child by keeping them within that familiar network. But again, there's kind of some stuff going on with that legal. The legal status. If it's within kinship care, then that child is in the custody of the state or the child welfare agency. If there is adoption that's pursued, then the adoption is finalized through the court system and those kinship adoptive parents gain full custody of the child. And obviously that's going to include some layers of complexity too, depending on what's going on in that family dynamic. And you might have family members or friends that are now receiving placements that hadn't expected it. In all those other lists, you've got family members or you have the. The parents, the prospective parents that are pursuing that placement, pursuing that adoption. But in kinship care, it might be a big surprise. It might be unexpected, right? So there are lots of different things going on when a child is placed in a family. It can be such a joyous time. It can also be such a chaotic time. It can be such a devastating time. And often it's some kind of one thing. [00:12:35] Speaker A: I know. Exactly. So I think the reason it was important, even in this episode to just name some of those different types of placements is because it highlights that this, like, everything we're about to say is, is not going to be a one size fits all. Like, we're going to talk about these ideas of, like, how to prepare yourself and your child and your family and your support system for a placement. But there is no way to talk about that without us naming and understanding that placements happen in all different kinds of ways. The. So some things that are true for every one of those scenarios is people are in significant transition, right? And the child is going through some sort of transition that we would say involves some trauma and loss. No matter the age and stage of that kiddo. They are going from one place space and adult to another place space in adults. And so we want to keep the child at the center of this conversation. Now, what is true is all the big people have feelings and we want to honor and name and talk about that. So let's think about that a little bit. Let's talk about what. And we can share from personal experience or just things that we've seen and observed in others that are part of our community. What has been the benefit of trying to think about this in advance? Right. So we. To your point, Jesse, most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time, when you're talking about taking placement of a child, you've got a little bit of time. Even if, if you've been waiting forever and you get a call and now you only have 24 hours, like, there's still typically some sort of preparation phase. So when you're thinking about that preparation phase, what are some things that we should be thinking about there as we're considering the placement and what might we want to communicate to those people that are in our support network? [00:14:33] Speaker C: The biggest thing I think about is expectations. And by the way, you know, we're keeping the child at the center of this conversation, but let's acknowledge, we know we're talking to the big people. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Right? That's right. [00:14:43] Speaker C: With the feelings. Right? [00:14:44] Speaker A: That's right. [00:14:45] Speaker C: We know that most likely it's not little Johnny listening to this podcast, it's Johnny's mom and dad. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:52] Speaker C: Or, you know, future Johnny or whatever it is, Johnny's grandparents. There's expectations. And so I think becoming aware you have them, whether you realize it or not. Right. We all, whether we realize it or not, have expectations about what being a parent is going to be like. Guess what? Our parents and our extended family members have expectations on what it might be like to become a grandparent or what it's going to be like when you become a parent. There's already an existing family dynamic and expectations about, you know, what adding more family members is going to look and feel like. And we can't do anything about those expectations until we become aware of them. So just exploring that, thinking through, you know, what do you think it's going to be like? What do you think it's going to feel like? And not just in, you know, the first day or the first week, but, you know, your. What are your hopes and dreams? What do you just thinking through those things. And I'm not a grandparent yet, but when I am, I think what I will be wanting to anticipate. I'm already getting a taste of this even with teenagers of like, what I want versus what they want, what I like versus what they like. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Yep. [00:16:14] Speaker C: And I think it can be a very tricky spot when your child is becoming a parent. I even just feel this way when friends are becoming parents of often if they're doing something different than You. It feels a little offensive or it feels a little tender, like they're parenting at you or in response to you. And so even pulling apart some of those expectations of, like, is it okay if my child parents differently than I parented? What will that feel like? What will that be like? And do they have the autonomy to make the choices they want to make for their family and their children? That's the biggest thing I would be thinking about ahead of time. [00:16:54] Speaker A: I appreciate that. You took me right back when you were talking to that moment that Mo and I became parents. And we became parents in South Korea to a sweet little guy that was 10 months old. And we met him on the day that we took custody of him. And then we got in a taxi with no car seat and drove away. Yeah. And we're holding this little person looking at each other like, who thought we could become parents. Like, whose idea was this? Was this our idea? Who thinks we've got what it takes? [00:17:26] Speaker C: So somebody's made a huge mistake. [00:17:28] Speaker A: Right? Right. So our first child came to us through international adoption. And into your point, Jesse, we're all growing our family in different ways. You might become a parent at the time of placement with an infant adoption or an international adoption, or you might have a large family and pursue a kinship placement. I mean, there's a lot of different dynamics at play, but no matter what's happening, there's a transition happening, no matter what stage and age the child is or what dynamics are going on in your family, because we became parents that way, and then we continued to become parents many times over, and it was so different every single time. So in this early preparation phase, sometimes in the world of adoption and foster care, we call this season cocooning. And what it means is, it's like, what do we want and hope for in that initial time of transition in bonding and building attachment? And that's that some of that expectation you're talking about. So let's dive into that a little bit. I mean, Becca, I'm gonna maybe look to you for just a minute because this is so new. Like, you guys have literally, maybe you're Stephen, even still a little bit in this phase of, like, what does it mean to become a parent in a family? And then how did you think about that in preparation? And what did you communicate to people? [00:18:50] Speaker B: I think it's so funny because, like, what is popping to my mind is so, like, daily and mundane and practical. It's like knowing when we were preparing to become parents. It's like communicating about, are we okay if people are in our house or not, like, in general, even before we became parents, but anticipating people are going to want to come meet our future baby. And what are we comfortable with? And I will share without saying too many details. My husband and I have very different personal opinions about that. So in preparing, we were able to kind of talk through, what am I comfortable with? What are you comfortable with? Okay, now what are we going to try to try to do? Try being the key word. Because everything is so unpredictable. You just can't know how it's going to play out. And this is even sillier. But it's like, are you okay with eating other people's food that they cook for you? Because if you're not, then it's kind of a way like you want to communicate well. And I, I, that goes back to. [00:19:50] Speaker A: Those misaligned hopes, because what if the people in your community are wanting to, like, make you a meal train? [00:19:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:56] Speaker A: But you're like, I don't know how I feel about eating food cooked in other people's kitchens. Right. That is a conflict that I was talking about. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Or maybe it's going to be okay. [00:20:05] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's like, so mundane, but it's like talking about those things during that waiting time. And just to the best of your ability, if you're parenting with a partner, getting on the same page, and if you're flying solo, processing with a friend so that you can really articulate what you want and need from your community. Because I think if you don't think about it or talk about it, um, of course you have to be willing to adjust your expectations. I will tell you that my husband did not want food from other people's houses. So Jesse actually organized a gift card meal train for us when we first became parents. But there was a friend who Rico is comfortable eating their food, who kind of was like, ah, forget that. And she just showed up at our house with meals about once a week for like four weeks. And it was such a huge gift to us because she, she knew my husband, she knew his preferences for food, what he likes and doesn't like, so was able to see kind of beyond our initial like, okay, this is the boundary we're going to try to set to be respectful of my husband's needs. But she knows us enough to kind of step into that. So there's like, I want to just say there's no rules. It's just this relationship dance between you and your spouse, between you and your extended family, between you and your community. It's just a dance. But if you don't think about it in preparation or advance, if you don't process it, there's probably going to be a little more stepping on toes. But if you can try to process it. And so even thinking through, my husband's family lives really close in proximity. So would we prefer to bring our future child to their house or would we prefer for them to come by our house? Like, what do we think we're going to want? And then just opening the conversation to, once we actually have a real human, let's reassess and let's talk about a. [00:21:51] Speaker A: Little bit of who they are, what they need. [00:21:54] Speaker B: So, you know, I mean, it's, I, I. Spoiler alert. You guys have already heard the podcast. So we did, we did not expect the beginning of our parenting to start with a 102 days in the NICU. And so it was very different because we didn't actually have a baby in our home for the first 102 days of parenting. And so I will say, like, those conversations shifted. But opening the conversation with even yourself, even to know what you think you're going to anticipate that you're going to need, I just think it's, it helps, it helps you kind of revisit that. It helps you try to do that dance with your community and with your, with your new family members. All those things kind of coming into play. So the cocooning phase for us happened. [00:22:35] Speaker A: In the NICU first, right? [00:22:36] Speaker B: The NICU made the rules. There was no visitors allowed. [00:22:40] Speaker C: We're very conducive to that, actually. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Very set. And then I'm so appreciative because when you bring home a baby from the nicu, there's just a lot of fear. I'm not speaking for all families. For us, there was a lot of fear of exposure to germs and being sick. And my husband's family, who lives just down the road was so kind and just without us even asking, just gave us space for about a month and a half and just FaceTimed and gave us space to, to be okay with just us because we were really nervous. And that was something that we didn't talk about when we were awaiting adoptive family because it wasn't in our, like, realm of possibility. But when it happened, we were able to kind of navigate it and process it. And I'm so grateful to my in laws for just the, the way that they navigated that early season with us, but also the joy when they got to meet her. Like, there was so Much love and care and kindness. And so I'm really grateful for the way that they navigated it. I know that's not everyone's story. I know that there's a lot of tension that happens between community members and extended family, like you said, Jesse, about when our expectations are not lining up. And so I want to honor that. That's. A lot of people have trouble with that beginning transition because you do want to build that attachment bond for us. Our sweet baby had had a lot of adults caring for her for a long time. So it was important to us at the early days that we wanted to her and change her and be her primary soothers so that she would build that attachment with us after a long time of a lot of adults kind of helping care for her. Which also want to say we are so grateful. Yes. [00:24:20] Speaker A: I think you're, you're hitting at the nuance of it. Right. And it's. To me and Jesse, I'd love to hear from you because I know you have really unique early experiences too. Like the way you guys grew your family in those early placements were, were your own and unique. What I love and value about this so much is that the tone of expectation and flexibility, like if we can just give ourselves the gift of, of self curiosity and exploration. What am I hoping for? What do I wish? What do I think is best? You know, like just being able to like stand in our own selves and name that is. Is a gift. So don't, don't shy away from like figuring out what you're hoping for and then, then we get to practice flexibility. Right? Because without dishonoring ourselves, like being flexible and still staying true to some of what we're hoping and wanting, we are six adopted kiddos into our story and every single one of those placements. And that those early months were so uniquely different than the ones before. Sometimes life halted and we slowed down and it was very much focused on building the attachment and going deep. And some of them, we hit the ground running because our family stage and season was so different. But even then we were like attuning to the needs of the child and helping them acclimate in to the family infrastructure. So I want to again say to that there, it's really depends on what's going on in your family unit. Jesse, y' all have had some unique adoption experiences, right? Like you started your family and you are not home. Do you mind hinting at that just a little bit? [00:26:05] Speaker C: Well, but we have two children, two daughters through international adoption, two different countries so they were both very different adoptions from each other. And also they're different kids from each other. So that just whatever we experienced that first time around was totally different the second time around. What I'm thinking even that I would just want to say if you're listening and you're preparing to become an adoptive parent for the first time. Time. Well, and something that the three of us have in common is that we adopted our first child. So our first parenting experience was through adoption. [00:26:45] Speaker A: That's right. But that's not all. That's not the case with everybody. Right. [00:26:49] Speaker C: That's not the case everyone. But if you're preparing to become a parent overall, I would encourage you. It is terrifying. [00:26:56] Speaker A: I don't know what you have to say, but I'm just going to do terrifying. [00:27:00] Speaker C: Don't scare them away. They're like pressing stop right now. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Hey, I'm naming the truth. I'm the truth teller. It is exciting and terrifying. [00:27:08] Speaker C: Anyway, I think one of the best things you can do, I mean, hopefully you're hearing it and what we're talking about is not just thinking about what you expect, but learning how to communicate well with your people because that's what you hear us talking about is like communicating with our spouses and about. And thinking about what we need. Oh my goodness, that was so hard for me. That's hard for me as a person. So I learned a lot about being able to do that just through becoming a parent because I had a lot of needs and I could not fill them all myself. So I had to start learning how to advocate for what I needed and how to ask, which is. Was terribly painful at first. But you know, back to what Tana had mentioned, people can't read your mind. And especially, you know, they may not have. Have experienced foster care or adoption before, so they may not even be able to anticipate what your unique need is. So I even remember friends coming to me when I was getting ready to become a first time parent and I was waiting. We waited two years for our first placement from start to finish. And I remember friends coming and being like, we really want to throw you a baby shower the way you have helped throw us baby showers. But like when and how. And I really appreciated them just coming and expressing that and asking because for me it felt the best to be able to do that when I knew who the person would be that I would be parenting. I didn't know if I was going to have a girl or a boy until we received that referral. And I didn't know how old she was going to be and I didn't know what we would need. And so when I knew that my oldest daughter was going to be who she was and I had her picture and I could show people, that was when I wanted to gather with people that loved me, me and receive a shower which was so special and sweet. I'm also thinking about a funny example of sometimes we think it's going to be a certain way and then we just have to be flexible with what we even wanted, which is when we went, we adopted from Ethiopia for our first placement and so it required two trips. My husband and I went for one week for the first trip trip, met our daughter, and then did the terribly difficult thing of saying goodbye to our new daughter that we had passed. We went for a court date. So we passed court. We showed up in court, they said, you're legally the parents of this little girl. And then we had to go home and wait for a visa appointment. And being, being me, I'm not terribly patient. And I was like, I will give them six weeks and then I'm going to go back no matter what. And my husband didn't have that type of vacation time from his current job at the time. So we decided I would go back and I was going to take my mother with me. So I remember we took custody of our, of our child that first day that we were in country. And so it's mom and grandmother with that first placement. And it was such a dream of a day. And then the next day happened. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Happened is the key word there. And then the next day I was like, what is happening? [00:30:19] Speaker B: What have I done? [00:30:20] Speaker C: And all of a sudden I got altitude sick. And we're in Ethiopia in the capital city. It's above sea level. I can't get out of bed. I'm just shaking. I'm very dizzy and weak. And all of my cocooning plans have to go out the window because I need grandma to help step up, take care of my brand new placed child. And so my mom was clutch in those first couple of days and got her special name, Nana, from feeding my daughter bananas, bananas over and over and over and forever. Now her, her grandmother name is Nana. But it, it wasn't what I, I was like, I'm doing the wrong thing. I'm doing it all wrong. Okay, lo and behold, we go to China for our second adoption. It, we did not wait two years for that placement. It was 12 weeks start to finish. It was a medical expedite. It was a totally different Experience. There was no time to even tell some of our friends we were becoming parents. And they didn't. You know, no one showered us, but we got gift cards mailed to us in the mail. And that lasted us for weeks. It was such a sweet, different way of caring for us. But guess what? My husband and I are in the country of China. We receive our. That custody of our daughter. That first day is a dream. And guess what happens the second day, y'? [00:31:48] Speaker A: All. [00:31:49] Speaker C: And it's not altitude sickness. And I realized it's been panic. [00:31:54] Speaker A: It's not. [00:31:55] Speaker C: Yeah, it's been panic and anxiety. [00:31:57] Speaker A: It just floods you. [00:31:58] Speaker C: It was not altitude sickness in Ethiopia. It was panic and anxiety. [00:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:03] Speaker C: And it, that's what it was in China. And I was laying in bed and I was shaking and weak and dizzy and I could not. And I was like, Nick, I. I need, I. I need help. I need to lay. This feels like the most lame thing ever, but I need to not go on that outing that is planned on our itinerary and can you please take our brand new child and leave me alone in this bed? And that was humbling. But I had some experience and I knew what I needed and I asked for it and I was able to recoup and regather and, and I knew what I needed for myself. So I think even just being able to, being able to identify what we need and ask for it and be flexible with what we expected of, like, oh, this isn't what I wanted or this what my child needs, but I'm going to have to give myself compassion here. All of that was at play. And the, the best muscle I could have been exercising in those pre days is learning how to communicate and identify and communicate what my needs are. [00:33:07] Speaker A: I mean, Jesse, you've taken us someplace I wanted to go. So let's go ahead and go there for just a few minutes because I think it's incredibly important when we are talking about this, these early days of growing our family through adoption, foster care, kinship, because we name something when it comes to birth and biological parenting. Right. Like, we understand that there can be some depression and grief and, and physical and hormonal sweeping that goes on. And I just think it's really important for us in this community to name that we also have some of those same shared experiences as we become parents on the other side of adoption, foster care. I mean, I have, there have been seasons and I'm like struggling with some depression or questioning or, you know, what, what did we do? Can we do this? And, and I remember waiting on between our yes and placement for one of our kids. I have a visceral memory of laying on my bed crying out and saying, we are saying yes to this. Am I ever going to get to have a bad day? Like, what about when this gets hard? Is it going to be okay for me to ask my community for help? Because I'm sort of voluntarily stepping into something that I know is going to take us down a totally different road. Like our life's drastically going to be be change. And is it going to be okay for me to not be okay? And that is part of this process of growing your family in ways that are very different than growing it biologically. It is not better or worse. It is just different. And so let's talk about that. Like, can we name some of those ebbs and flows of that emotion? And what has it been yalls experience been like to think about the emotional roller coaster. I mean we could say of just parenting, period. But I want to hone in specifically on this placement season, sort of pre placement placement, post placement. Let's talk about those emotions right there. And what. What has been some of yalls experiences. You've named it Jesse. Some anxiety and panic and maybe the release of that. [00:35:20] Speaker C: I think there. I mean, I'm. I'm going to pull out what you also. I just. I also remember an experience thinking, I've brought this on myself. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:32] Speaker C: And now I can't ask for help. I did this to myself. Why would I make a burden for other people? [00:35:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:39] Speaker C: And I remember talking on a road trip to a friend and she was like, how can we support you? It was before my. It was in the season before my yes became the reality. The yes it happened. And I said, I just. I don't want people to have to deal with me. I'm going to lose all my friends, is what I told her. And she said, you will not lose all of your friends. You have been this friend and now we get to be that friend to you. We get a front seat to what is happening in your life. And to be able to be vulnerable and to be able to move through that guilt to just humility and the ability to receive care. That was really, really life changing for me. [00:36:29] Speaker A: I mean, I'm getting emotional because I'm swept right back to the same kiddo that I wondered like, am I going to get to have a hard day? I remember being in the ICU with that baby, not sure if we were going to make it to be there the next day. And my mother in law and my father in law rushing into town and me walking out the ICU door falling into her arms and I suppose having such a moment of vulnerability where I said, I am so sorry. And it was a sense of I needed to apologize to her for sort of putting her in a position to grandparent a kiddo that was going to be sick. And her response was so full of so much grace. You have nothing to apologize for. This is our grandchild. Like that, that was the support. But, but I was carrying something way down deep in my soul for feeling like, you know, I'm in the middle of this post placement fog and I, I don't even know how to handle my own emotions. And now I'm asking all of you people sort of go on the roller coaster with us. So may maybe my encouragement if anybody's listening is like, it's normal to have the ebbs and flows of the major amount of emotion when we step into adoption, foster care and kinship care because there's this weird dynamic of feeling like it was our choice, but yet maybe it really kind of wasn't. It's just part of our life and the children deserve to be loved and cared for as they are. And so, so do we. So if you are ebbing and flowing or if you're waiting to do it, you're going to ebb and flow and it's okay to have the ebbs and flows communicate, ask for help, be vulnerable, share your true heart and let the people around you meet your needs. Becca, do you have anything else to add to that before we kind of jump into something else? [00:38:30] Speaker B: I just think becoming a parent is terrifying. You said it earlier. And so I think different personalities are going to process differently. But allowing yourself to just, just hold on, you know, hold on and go, go along for the ride however it's happening for you. Yeah, I, I, I could probably talk for hours about that first four days for us and it being so different from what I ever expected or thought. I could talk about how I'm like an overthinker in advance. I think about options A through Z before things happen. And my husband really experiences things as they happen. And so I could talk about that. I think it was, was, and is helpful to have friends and family members who became parents. A lot of different ways to normalize. For me, parenting is scary. Becca. It's okay to be scared. Whether that's my sister who has three biological kids saying, saying, yeah, it's hard, it's scary, it's, it's a lot. You Feeling kind of anxious today. That's normal. And then having you guys who became parents in a more similar way through adoption, and. And you, Tana, even saying what you just said to all of our listeners on the podcast, you told me when we were a waiting family, it's okay to make this choice and have hard day. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:54] Speaker B: So you even telling me that in advance was a gift to me when the hard days came. The hard days are going to come. So I just. I echo what you guys said, and I just think the anxiety, the crippling. You know, even the. The doctors in the NICU would joke. I would say, maybe one day I'll feel less anxious. They're like, I don't know. Mine's 32, and I still feel it every day. So there's. There's part of it that's just. You're responsible for a person. [00:40:21] Speaker A: I know. And your nervous system is adjusting to that reality. [00:40:24] Speaker B: You're just. It's just happening. And it's a. It's by. It's biological and it's emotional and it's mental. It's all the things. [00:40:31] Speaker C: And if you're listening and you're in someone's community, I hope you do not discount the power of an encouraging word. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:38] Speaker C: Like, I mean, shout out to Aaron Crenshaw. I'm just gonna. If you're listening, Aaron, it was your words that let me know it was okay. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:48] Speaker C: To need things from my friends. Right. Or just those people in our lives that have. That have been either willing to and, like, see through what we weren't asking. [00:41:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:00] Speaker C: Now, some people don't have that ability. And if you don't, it's okay. Don't. Don't try. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:07] Speaker C: Just do what people ask. But you know that friend that brought the meals and is like, listen, they are not gonna want to go try and get their meals every single day. I'm just gonna make something I know Rico likes, you know? [00:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:20] Speaker C: That's a special gift to be able to. [00:41:23] Speaker A: To. [00:41:24] Speaker C: To encourage people in that season of transition in that way to let them know that however they are is okay, that it's okay to have a bad day. Like, what a true gift as a grandparent or an auntie or a friend. [00:41:40] Speaker B: I want to highlight something that you did for me, Jesse, which was because we became parents in a different way. There was this, like, we needed help immediately because our lives got flipped upside down. Down. But we knew we would need help. Also when she came home and we didn't know what that would look like. And you were like, becca, people want to help you now and it doesn't mean they're not going to help you later. Because I was like, we don't need a meal train now because, because it's. [00:42:07] Speaker C: It'S different to save the generation. [00:42:08] Speaker B: I was trying to save it. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:10] Speaker B: And you gave me the gift of like, you need, you need help right now, Becca. Like you kind of named it pretty, like directly, which I needed to hear. And then, then you and some other friends came together to give us a shower kind of in the, in the intermediate. And then whenever she came home, there was other, there was a meal train from our church and there. And if you brought us a meal, Rico probably really enjoyed it. And he was pleasantly, definitely enjoying. Right. No secret messages here. But I wanna, I think that our experience was unique. And something I just want to mention before we move on from this part is when you're a foster family and you've got placements that come in and you're kind of in a season where in one year I might need help several times because it's not just anticipating, you know, kind of our stories are a little similar, but we've got friends and colleagues and family members who have done either kinship or foster care for short or long term placements. And I just want to tell you what Jesse told me. Like, like it's okay to keep needing help. It's okay that I needed help in January and then in June I need help again. Like it's a different situation and it's a different need. And so I just appreciate you giving me that gift. [00:43:23] Speaker C: I had lived, I had lived that gift. That's how I could pass it on. It was the gift of let us help you. Let us help you now, let us help you later. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, let's talk about some of those things that are helpful. Like what, what have we found to be helpful? Or if you're in the support, if you're a listener and you're in that supporting role, you know, what would be some things we would want to encourage them? You know, continue on with your generosity. Maybe ask about meals, meal preferences, set up the meal train or do the meal cards. Think about when is the right time for a shower. I think about especially I have a dear friend that's been a foster mom for years and years and years and is took a break and is fostering again. And it's an older teen. Like what does that family need is they're welcoming home an older teenager. Still shower them with the love and maybe It's Target gift cards so that the teen can go shopping. Like, let's just hone in on a couple of those super practical things that might be helpful for consideration as you're transitioning. What, what comes to mind? [00:44:24] Speaker C: Well, I do want to encourage parents it's okay to ask for what you need. Do you hear this recurring theme? So people are going to help whether you ask for it or not. [00:44:33] Speaker B: That's true. [00:44:34] Speaker C: And if you want specific help, then maybe name it so that you get that kind of help. [00:44:38] Speaker A: Help. [00:44:38] Speaker C: And if you are one of the helpers in the community, like what we tend to want to do is hold the baby because who doesn't love to hold a baby or buy baby clothes? But there might be some more practical needs that that family needs. Like what if you just showed up and mowed their lawn while they're out of town on that international adoption placement? And you know, like that did happen. [00:45:03] Speaker A: For us on one of our trips. Who came back in the yard had been mowed? I haven't. I still have no idea who mowed. Are you yard. What's the biggest guess? [00:45:09] Speaker C: What if the first week of a new placement when someone's jet lagging or has been up all night with a baby or has been up all night with a teenager, that you drop their favorite coffee on their doorstep and don't even ask for a personal interaction. You just say, hey, coffee on your doorstep. I had a friend who knew I needed to go shopping for diapers at Target and said, hey, can I come pick you up and take you to Target and buy you a check? And just walked through Target while I, it was like I needed to run that errand and that was so meaningful to me. And honestly, she needed to go shopping and didn't have a lot of time. And that was how she could meet me in the midst of her busy life too. Right there. There are just practical things and ways that we can offer help that, that maybe might not be as cute or glamorous as holding the baby, but are seen and noticed and just deeply appreciated. [00:46:06] Speaker B: A couple that come to mind from like my 5 years ago when I was just the friend, you know, trying to show up. Siblings, like in a lot of family situations, siblings need a little love and just taken an older kiddo to the park or to some kind of arcade or to even a movie. Like if you're in a relationship with a family and they've got older kiddos or. I mean, I have to say this because we're dog people. Pets. Like our sweet Dog was so neglected, and somebody just showing up and saying, I'm gonna take her on a walk. Like that just meant so much to me because it was like, oh, like, she's part of our family, too. And so just thinking beyond, like you said, Jesse, thinking beyond maybe cute baby clothes and holding the baby and maybe long. I'm gonna drop off the meal and stay for, like, an hour. Like, maybe it's if. And I. And I want to say, in some cases, we had people drop off meals. They came in. I wanted them to sit with me and to tell me how cute my baby was and to be with me in that moment. But just. [00:47:09] Speaker C: She's looking at me. She's glad I don't. [00:47:11] Speaker B: I'm glad you came in. But we had another friend who did something I had not even considered. I knew she was bringing a meal by. She just very quietly pulled up. I didn't even hear the car. She dropped everything on our porch, nicely packaged. I thought I heard her little guy talking outside. And I, like, walked to the front door to say hi. And she was pulling away because she didn't want to pressure me with the interaction. So there's, you know, in some cases that's really helpful to, like you said, just leave the coffee on the doorstep, leave the meal on the doorstep. Not make people. Not make people have that interaction and that energy that it takes. And then I think just being an encouraging face, voice, word. [00:47:53] Speaker A: You. You're. [00:47:54] Speaker B: You're already friends with this person before they're in this stressful season. Hopefully you know them a little bit. Do they really appreciate a little handwritten note? Drop one off. Do they really appreciate a text or hey, I was listening to this song and it reminded you me of you keep doing those friendship things that you've been doing. They mean so, so much in stressful seasons. I had a friend who said, I know you can't leave the hospital. I'm in the lobby, me. And I've got chick fil a and you can come grab the chick fil a and go upstairs or sit with me. And on that day, I really needed someone to sit with me. But I didn't know to ask for that. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Right? But she wouldn't have said the choice. Please go get chick fil a place. [00:48:34] Speaker B: She had a free morning, and she offered me a choice. Hey, Becca, Today, right now, don't think about what you need tomorrow or the next day. I'm here with coffee and chick fil a. If you want, that can be that, that or I can sit with you. And on that day, I was like, you know what? I really need you to sit with me. Like, I'm really not okay today. So just giving people, if you're the support person, trying to build in voice and choice is something we talk about a lot. And just giving people permission to feel one way one day, and one way another day. One day I want my friend to come in my house. The next day, I'm really tired. I really just want you to keep driving, you know, just respecting that people are in different places on different days. [00:49:12] Speaker C: I love choices for both the reason that you've got options depending on how you feel, but also that you don't have to come up with the idea yourself. Because in a season like that, when you're feeling so overwhelmed, I mean, we all mean well. And I do this too. We say, what do you need? Or how can I help? Or the worst, just let me know how I can help. Yeah, I was not gonna just let someone know how they could help unless I was feeling incredibly bold and need. Um, I was that needy. I just normally wasn't feeling that bold. Right. It's the person that's like, I have done this. Accept it this way or this way. It was very, very helpful. [00:49:55] Speaker A: I love it. I appreciate Yalls perspective. I mean, I think there's some. There's some takeaways here, right? Which is when you're in a season of new placement, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of needs. There's a lot of opportunities to start practicing negotiating those needs. Needs and then taking into consideration what's going on inside of you. What are the possible needs of the kiddo, Which, I mean, I said at the top, take into consideration. Please just go listen to, like, all of our other episodes, and they will enlighten you on what's going on inside of a kiddo in the middle of transition. But they need to be taken into consideration, especially once they're at home or in your presence, if you're not getting to come home just yet. So if you're a support person, please just consider how you can meet the needs of both the new parents and the privacy and support of the kiddo that's coming into care, because there's a lot going inside their little brains and bodies. But I appreciate y' all sharing today. I hope y' all found this helpful. And thank you guys for joining us. [00:51:02] Speaker B: We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, the best way to support us going forward is to subscribe. Subscribe. We'd love to hear from you, leave a review, drop us a comment, or email us to let us know what you hope to hear in future episodes. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at Etc. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. Until then, we're holding on to hope with you. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Sam.