[E221] Parenting as a Second Language

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. It's so good to be here today with Jesse and Tana Ambeka, and we are so excited to be with you for this episode. Uh, today's conversation is actually based off of a video that some of us saw on TikTok, some of us saw on Instagram, you know, depending on our age and generation. But Dr. Becky at good Inside, you guys have probably heard of her at this point has is kind of an expert in the parenting space. And she had this video where she was talking about this idea of, hey, we're told from the beginning that we have a mother's instinct. So then when parenting doesn't feel natural to us, it feels like we're doing something wrong. And I think we spend so much time on this podcast, podcast talking about what it feels like to be a parent. Our own self reflection in that, our own growth mindset in that. And the analogy that she uses in this little clip is, hey, the only thing that's natural as a parent is how you were parented. So she uses language to kind of highlight this. So she's like, hey, if you grew up in an English speaking household and then you decided, I want to teach my kids Mandarin, you would have to practice and learn Mandarin and it would not feel natural. And like, when you're stressed out, I don't care how much Mandarin you know, you're yelling in English. I have the unique experience of I am bilingual. I grew up speaking Russian from when I was three. So I grew up in a bilingual household. We spoke Russian when Russian people were in our home, we spoke English when English people were in our home, we switched back and forth. There's certain words to this day that I cannot think of in English because it just comes more naturally in Russian because of the context that I was in. So the analogy is, hey, guys, parenting a different way than you were parented is like speaking a second language. I'm curious, just off the bat, Tana and Jesse, what part of that resonates with you? We all saw this clip and we're like nodding our heads in studio thinking about it together. So what, you know, initially off the bat just is like, yeah, that feels right to me. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Oh, right off the bat, I was thinking about those early days of trying to practice connected parenting when my kids were younger and I was newer to the content and strategies. And I was thinking about counterintuitive. All of it felt. It was like the time when you're most disconnected from your child is the time when you need to pull close to them. And it was like, I don't want to. I don't want to do that. So that idea of, like, it's all in there, just, you know, trust your instincts. My instincts were. Were not what I needed to be following. My instincts were. It makes me think about the way attachment parenting, those attachment theories talk about how when we are securely attached to an adult, to a caregiver, we want to do what they say. We want to cooperate and collaborate with them. Really, that's not even children and adults. That's just people and people. And when you are disconnected from someone biologically, Gordon Neufeld has said this, you are repelled by them. Like, literally, literally, your emotions are like, I can't stand this person. And so when that's happening, happening physiologically, emotionally, biologically within you, it is like. It just feels so wrong to do the counterintuitive thing. And that was really, really difficult to learn. [00:03:47] Speaker A: I. I love something she said in there. And it just is so reminiscent, I think, of. Of who we are here at etc. And she hit the nail on the head and she said, parenting is a skill. Yeah. And I think we give ourselves so much, maybe understanding or just insight, compassion, when we're trying to learn something new. I'm certain we've shared this on the podcast. I think, Jesse, you probably brought it to the organization. And we say it all the time now. It's like one of our catchphrases. This is what learning feels like. So there's this understanding within the DNA of our organization that learning something new is. Can be sticky, challenging, hard, and takes practice. But the stakes are so high in parenting and, you know, our lived experience as we were flipping the switch, like, literally in real time with children in our home and family knowing. To your point, Jesse, it was a major whirlwind emotionally for me because I actually had, like, my gut was telling me the way I was parenting isn't actually what I wanted to be doing, but I was trying to fit into sort of some societal norm based on my culture and the people around me and what they said was the right way to parent. And my instincts had become aligned with that. So I had this internal war. Then add to that we were trying to do something new, and I was. We were fumbling our way through, and that was sending mixed messages to each other, to our children, because we might kind of quote, unquote, do the connected parenting thing. One minute and then hit a moment of dysregulation and fall into our instincts the next. And it just was a really difficult time. So when she said, like. And you kind of said it, Becca, like, when you're learning a new language. So I would use myself as an example, like, I'm a native English speaker, and let's say I was, you know, attempting to learn Spanish, which I am horrible at, foreign language. So that would. That's a joke in and of itself. Let's just say, you know, at this ripe old age of 50 plus, I decided to learn the new language of Spanish. It would be such a massive struggle for me because it's not something I've ever, quote, unquote, been good at. I'm way past the age of 50. Now is not the time to start learning a new language. I am certain in moments of dysregulation and stress, everything I've ever learned in Spanish is going out the window. And I really appreciate that analogy because I think if you're trying to parent a different way than what is how you were parented growing up, what comes naturally to you, what your personality is like, what your enneagram type is like, who you are at the core. And you are trying to go radically against that, to break cycles, to do something new, to forge a new path, to write a new chapter. It is so incredibly hard because you are literally working against yourself and your potential history, family, personality, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it just maybe there's even some exhale and, oh, it's not just me forging a new way. I'm not the only one that feels like I am scraped and falling and stumbling and bumped and bruised. And I think about those and it still happens. I'm not saying I'm immune to it. The shame spirals that follow, the moments when you sort of quote, unquote, go back to your native language when you're deeply trying to do something new. So it just resonates with me on so many levels. [00:07:25] Speaker B: And you highlighted something, I think important, which is that a lot of us are parenting like we're on a stage. So you mentioned, you know, my. My culture at the time was parenting this way, and I was wondering what people were thinking of me. What I think is interesting, I am in a different spot where I learned these principles before I became a parent. I still feel that sense of being on a stage. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:49] Speaker B: So I think that there's this inherent sense of shame might be a good word sometimes, maybe even just embarrassment. Or just insecurity. Like, I don't think it's just one feeling, but I think we can feel these things kind of back to what she said in the video, because we think that our instinct, our mother's instinct, we think we should just be able. [00:08:11] Speaker A: To do it, do it. [00:08:12] Speaker B: And whether we're trying to do a reverse, like, we've been doing one thing and we're doing it a different way, or if we're just internally kind of doing a reverse on how we were parented and we want to do something different. I just really. I think that that is something that a lot of parents feel. I think a lot of us feel. I mean, if you think about the stories that we tell, even on this podcast, how many times is it like, well, I was in Target while we were in public. Well, everyone was, like, watching me in the church lobby. Like, a lot of times that we. The most intense emotions is when it feels like we're on a stage. And so I just wanted to pause and highlight that, because I think that is how it feels. And, man, we could do a side note on how judgmental parent. You know, the parenting space is. People on social media and in real life have a lot of judgment towards how other people parent. Even in friendship conversations, there's, well, so and so lets their kids do such and such. And so it's just hard. It's hard to navigate that as a parent. I think, yeah, I would be curious from both of you, maybe what you've learned about parenting on a stage. How have you, like, set that aside at times? How have you. How has that impacted you? Because I kind of heard you saying that. Tana. [00:09:20] Speaker C: Hey. First, Becca, I want to just note you were saying, I learned all these strategies before I became a parent, and I've always loved training with Tana because we kind of had this juxtaposition between our two families in which Tana came to these strategies after she became a parent. It's kind of like she moved to the country of the language she wanted to speak and then, like, immersed herself. [00:09:45] Speaker A: I just need everybody to feel, like, a lot of compassion for me in that particular moment when I said, foreign language is not my thing. [00:09:51] Speaker C: And Tona, when I hear you and Mo talk about it over the years, it's like, if only we had coulda, shoulda, woulda. Like, we wish we'd had these tools and not to take away from that, because, of course, but it probably still. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Would have been hard. [00:10:02] Speaker C: That's a certain kind of grief and loss of, like, the Loss of knowing what you could have had and you didn't know. And I want to name the certain kind of still hard, maybe shame that parents like Becca and I feel where we learned the language. [00:10:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:21] Speaker C: Before we moved to the country. And then when you get there, you're stressed out at the, you know, bus stop and you can't remember the name of the thing you want, and you. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Think you should know it, and you. [00:10:32] Speaker C: And. Yeah. And there's so much shame in that, of reverting back to how you're hardwired, how you're parented, as Dr. Becky points out. Like, really, the parenting that comes naturally is how we were parented, she points out. And you don't even know it's baked in there. It's like that. It's like that. You know that funny thing that we all make fun of that, like, we just become our parents. We hear ourselves saying the things our parents said. And anyways, it's. [00:11:05] Speaker A: If. [00:11:05] Speaker C: If you're finding yourself thinking, I wish. I think this would have all been easier if I'd just known it before. I think maybe I'm here to tell. [00:11:13] Speaker A: You, like, it's still hard. [00:11:15] Speaker C: It's. You still revert to what you're. What's hardwired in your brain. So there's. Yeah, it's. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker C: I remember feeling shocked about that. Like, I know what to do and I'm making mistakes. How is that possible? But we're just all humans. This is what learning feels. [00:11:35] Speaker A: I appreciate that perspective, Jesse. Yeah. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Or I know the principle, but it's real different in real life. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Yep. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Which, I mean, not to, like, belabor the language analogy, but you can be on Duolingo all day learning the language, and then if you get dropped off in the country, it's still going to be different. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Like, applying the principles to a real family with a real kiddo is so different from learning real parents in a class. [00:11:59] Speaker C: You know, to speak that language slowly in a controlled environment. [00:12:03] Speaker A: And. [00:12:03] Speaker C: And then that person's, like, speaking 50 miles an hour at you. And. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah. You've got, like, visual aids. You've got, like, all the, like, charts and everything telling you what's the right thing. And then in real life, you haven't slept for five years and something's coming at you. What are you supposed to do? [00:12:19] Speaker A: Do you. I think this. I wonder if this holds to play. Like, just play this little game with me. So let's think we're in that foreign. That foreign country and we're trying to order something off of a Menu and just that awkward stumbling feeling of like, am I going to try to use this language right now? And I think that is so reminiscent. [00:12:39] Speaker C: Yes. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Of trying to practice a couple of these parenting skills. We talk about when it literally feels the exact opposite of what you've ever done or think a parent should do. I remember early on, why was this one so hard? I don't know. But we talk about this instinct where if you bend down and look at a child at eye level, there's actually something that happens in the brain. It creates felt safety. It diffuses the moment. Like you're. You get in sync. You're starting to co regulate like literal proximity to how you hold your body in position to a child can be a really powerful thing. Doing that felt so awkward to my whole physiological body. To be dysregulated myself, to be struggling with the child's behavior and to take a knee and get eye to eye to me was as, as awkward as trying to order the first time in a foreign language off of a menu at a restaurant. Where my. To your point, Jesse, my whole body was saying, that is not what you should do. That is, that is exactly the opposite of what people and par do when they're correcting a child. You, you use a different tone. You stand tall. You don't bend down and go soft. Like, what in the world is that? That is exactly what we're talking about. And it is okay if those things don't feel natural. It is. I would expect they wouldn't. So what if we flip the script here and say it should and will feel as stumbling and awkward as trying to order off of a menu in a different country, in a different language. When you do something that is so different than anything that was ever done for you or that you want to do yourself. She said that she is the example. If you're a dad with a kid that's upset and you're sitting on the couch and, and no, no, your, your dad never said to you, hey buddy, it's okay to be upset if your feelings weren't validated, if you weren't melt met in that moment emotionally, you have actually zero blue book on how to do that for the child that's sitting beside you. So when you try, it's gonna feel weird because you don't have anything to pull from. You don't have a history or examples or a blueprint or a lesson book. It's not ingrained in your wiring. So it's okay if it feels stumbling and awkward to give it a Shot because you guys even knew what you were supposed to do, but you still had to do the thing. And doing the thing is tricky. [00:15:16] Speaker C: It makes me think about. I've probably talked about this before, but I've heard this taxonomy of learning talked about. And in the order in which we learn things, in which a human learns things, there is that stage where you believe everyone should, Everyone should parent this way. And that's how I would categorize Becca and me when we're learning these strategies before becoming a parent is like, yes, everyone should. But it is after that stage that you learn that you should and start putting it into practice. [00:15:55] Speaker A: That's so interesting. [00:15:57] Speaker C: And the thing that shifts it is actually starting to internalize and do it yourself and experience the tension of like, oh, I wanted to do this, but I did it a different. I did it the way that, that I've been telling people they should do it. I very much identified with what you said, Tana, in terms of like that. That thing you can think of that just felt so counterintuitive and for me, clunky. Clunky, Yes. I didn't even realize it, but I had such a punitive mindset. I don't even know that it was based on how I was parented. I think it was just part of, I don't know, having this like, sense of right and wrong and integrity and like, you should do the right thing and people should want to do the right thing. And. And so I wanted to teach right and wrong. And so when my child was dysregulated, it felt so backwards to me to co regulate with them. I was like, I, I was, I was using the co regulating strategies. And y' all know this because I, I rail against it all the time. It's like my soapbox. I'm like, the idea of time ends. Because what I did was I took the concept of a timeout and I just like said it was a time in. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:17:17] Speaker C: I was like, we're gonna sit right here and I'm thinking over spot until we can decide the better way to do it. You know, like, that's not co regulation during timeout. You know, my kids flipping out, I'm flipping out. And that's not what that was for. We were not, we were not de. Escalating. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:35] Speaker C: But it was so hard for me to shift that mindset and that takes time. We have to watch other people do it. We have to believe it's important and we have to practice in that clunky kind of way. [00:17:46] Speaker A: What felt clunky to you about that? What was it that you were like, this is the thing that I have to do right now. That is not what my body and brain are telling me to do, but I need to do it instead. [00:17:57] Speaker C: You know, there's so much part of that I think that I could unpack. I think a large part of it was I wasn't realizing how I felt about emotions. It was, it was, you know, I'm like huge on attachment style. It was going back to like this other small humans. Big emotions is intolerable to me. It feels excruciating. And I needed, I need those feelings. [00:18:23] Speaker A: To stop or I need to get away from them. [00:18:25] Speaker C: Right. I need to get away from them. So I was trying to tamp it down. Stop it. We're going to, we're going to calm down right now. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:33] Speaker C: I think that's what felt so clunky to me was because I didn't know how to sit with the emotions. I had to do so much. And this can be frustrating when we do parent training because parents are like, hold on, I came here to talk about my kids behaviors. Why are we talking so much about me? [00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:51] Speaker C: But I had to do so much personal growth and exploration about those things before I could come to a place to be able to, I don't, to be able to sit with those emotions and co regulate with the child without. [00:19:06] Speaker B: Feeling like you had to move to kind of like get it together parenting. Like, I feel like you're describing kind of this like, get it together. [00:19:14] Speaker C: Pull yourself. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Get it together. [00:19:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:16] Speaker B: And we're gonna move on. Like, we're gonna stay here in the like, middle space of like, we might not be super happy, but we're moving forward and we're not sitting here with all this nonsense. Like, I feel like that I, I, I feel like I love my parents deeply, deeply, deeply. I could spend four podcast episodes talking about the incredible ways that they parented me. We, I did grow up in a get it together culture. I grew up in a culture where it's not okay if something is frustrating to you. You better stuff that as deep as possible and just put a smile on your face and keep it moving. So I resonate with you because I think whenever I've been like in mentoring or teaching or educational roles with kids, I do default to that kind of. No, no. Like that you're, you're doing too much. Like, that's too many feelings. Move on. Like, let's move on. We're fine. Let's move on. And it Wasn't that I necessarily would want them to like it wasn't. It's like the frustration or the eye rolls or the, the, the emotional reaction they were having was more frustrating to me than the actual original behavior. I don't know if that's what you're saying, but anyway, I'm, I'm processing that as you're talking. [00:20:27] Speaker C: It's almost like I had to change my intuition. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So something that's sort of coming up in me is I use this example. Mo and I talk about this a lot when we're talking about marriage. And if you have to ask your spouse to do something for you that. And then they do it. What if we flipped that script and said, okay, maybe it didn't come instinctual for them to meet my needs, but when I was willing to communicate my need and then they like took action to meet it. Can that not be more a sign of love, devotion and dedication than if they were just a mind reader? [00:21:07] Speaker B: That's a good one, Tana. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Okay, so we could talk about that on another episode. Let's. Let's boil it down here. So what that means is I'm not going to hold. I'll just use Mo and I as an example. I'm not going to hold Mo accountable for not being able to instinctually read my mind and meet my needs. I'm going to say, here's my need. He in love and care and compassion for me is going to do his best to respond and meet the need. What if we flipped that switch and gave ourselves that same amount of self compassion? Here's what that would look like. It would look like my instinct. Look, in the middle of a meltdown, a stressful moment, a moment of dysregulation. You are not thinking this clearly. This is called reflective thinking back about something. Okay? But it. If, if something's going down and your instinct is telling you fight, flight, freeze, fawn. Because you're in your stress response and you're to your point, Jesse. And thank you for sharing that so vulnerably. You're feeling like you are repelled. You're pulling away. What if self compassion said, hey, that's okay. That's being a human. That's your body trying to tell you to take care of yourself. Now we've got to make a different choice in our action and do something different because we've assessed the need. We've reflected back. We know our kid needs something different. We're practicing insightful parenting. We're going to do a different thing. I wish that as parents we wouldn't judge ourselves any harsher for our natural instinct than we do a spouse for not being able to read our mind. Does that make sense to y'? [00:22:45] Speaker C: All? Yeah, it does. [00:22:45] Speaker A: We are like, it's okay to not have a blueprint and all of this historical knowledge and personality wiring to do this compassionate, insightful, connected attachment and healing centered parenting. It's a mouthful to even say that this is a tall task and it takes a lot of practice and unfortunately if we're stumbling and we revert to I should be able to do this. I, you know, here I go again. Why am I pulling away? Why can't I X, Y and Z? If we shame and should and could and would ourselves to death, we aren't going to be able to make progress. What if our internal voice was something like ha. There's my natural instinct again. Thanks instinct for taking care of me. We're making a different choice now and it's going to feel real awkward, body and brain, because you don't have any, you know, hard wiring for this. You haven't practiced this skill. Hey brain, this is what learning feels like. We're going to try something new today. Like it's weird, but you have to have this sort of strong internal fortitude and mental dialogue to break cycles and forge a new path. It's, it's. I do believe in neuroplasticity. I do believe that even at my age our, my brain's still growing and I'm learning new neuropath my forging new neuro pathways as I learn and grow and change. And we can do that as parents. You are not a bad person or a bad parent because you haven't been given the blueprint or the time to practice new skills. Like just be gentle is maybe what I would, would that would be my heart's desire for our listeners is like let my voice be the voice of kindness. It's okay if this doesn't come natural. It's okay if your natural instinct wasn't to know what was needed, but you took the time to think back and you're going to try a different really awkward, clunky thing next time. [00:25:02] Speaker C: Two things come to mind when I think of that. First is that learning piece of like, we wouldn't ever berate our kids that are learning how to walk for not knowing how to walk yet, right? Like we don't know how to parent yet. And even if you've parented five kids, the sixth kid, you've never parented them before. Like it's different every single time. And you can't have learned how to parent that child before you parented that child, because every single human is unique. What, what one child responds to, the other child might not respond to. So what you're doing in the moment is so much trial and error for both of you. That's what learning feels like. And I think that's the beauty to me of that connecting practice that we have. That's rep. And a lot of times I just think of it as repair. But the other two words in that connecting practice are so important and make all the difference. It is reflect and readjust. Like, yes, I love that we can repair and that that is a connected practice with our kids. But then when I reflect on, like, what could I have done differently in the moment that would have been more supportive, or what have I learned about this child now or about myself, and how can I make a readjustment for next time that has made all the difference in my parenting? I can't even remember what my second thing was. [00:26:30] Speaker A: I think that you probably just said it. Maybe it'll come back to you. [00:26:33] Speaker B: I think you just hit on it. Well, it's that idea of there is not really a destination. So this is where, you know, the analogy falls apart because it's not really learning Mandarin. It's learning Spanish with this kid and Russian with that kid and Mandarin with this kid. [00:26:49] Speaker A: I love that. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Back then, it's this, like, it's a journey. It's about, hey, this is what it feels like to learn this relationship. And this relationship is so different from that relationship. And there's principles that hold. There's, you know, parts of speech and grammar in every language, even if they're different. And so there. There are principles that we hold dearly here at etc that we don't compromise on. And I think to your point earlier, Tana, you have to know the kind of parent you want to be to have the fortitude to try something hard. It is. It is hard to parent out of instinct because there's a lot of frustration that can happen and a lot of doubts. But it's also hard to parent with intention because you're going against these natural tendencies. So you have to know, kind of, why do I believe that this is the way forward? And as cheesy as it sounds at empowered to connect. Connection is always our, like, North Star. It's always the guidepost. And you said it beautifully, Jesse. Connecting with this kid might look so different from connecting with that kid that it feels like you're being two different parents because you are. I really appreciate you highlighting that because I think that it's easy to see, you know, maybe I have, like, two sisters and a brother, and I might be like, man, I wish I was like Anna and she does this, this and this. Well, that works for Anna and that particular kid. That doesn't mean it's going to work for me and my baby. That doesn't mean it's going to work for my brother and his son. Like, so there's just. I think that's really beautiful, a beautiful reminder. And then I appreciate Utana for giving us permission to just fumble our way through. You said the thing about the North Star. You didn't say it that way, but you have to know your why. And then you did highlight. You've got to give yourself time to practice. So what has that piece look like for you guys? [00:28:45] Speaker A: Oh, well, let's see. My oldest is 25, and I messed up yesterday with my youngest. So how about that? Like, how about it just. It. It takes like, my. I don't want to start this downward spiral of, of it being about my behavior either. Like, it's about this, like, idea of us growing together. And if I'm going to let my kids have. Thank you for that reminder, Jesse, of, like, let them have time to practice a skill, well, then I should let myself have time to practice the skill and I should let my husband have time to practice the skill. And in those early days when we were literally changing everything about how we were doing everything, it was so much harder before we started seeing the benefits of what we were choosing to do, because we were going from this very sort of, if this. Then this consequential sort of parenting where we were attempting to control behavior with punitive discipline. So when we were like, let's try to let go of that and build towards attachment and connection and regulation and redirection and repair and then going back, like, the poor children did not know what was going on. Like, mom and dad were changing before their very eyes. And that can be quite unsettling to a nervous system. So practicing a skill with another human being who is also needing to practice some new skills. Don't give up on it too soon. Yeah. Would be like, I'm not going to try to quote the science, but it takes, like, a lot of time. Times to try something new. Like, I always think about it, like, Mo and I started this thing and the. The thing ahead of us was a massive jungle. It was like an Amazon rainforest with zero pathways and we had all these sweet children in tow when we were like, let's head into the jungle and forge a new pathway. And we were all getting, you know, scrapes and bruises and hit in the face with branches and falling down and stumbling, them and us. And over time, the path got wider and wider and we knew the way forward because we were doing new language, new vocabulary, like it was. We switched it up on everybody, and bless our hearts, we made it through. And I have zero regrets, but I would say it took several years until some of these things were, like, my natural instinct. [00:31:21] Speaker B: And I want to say it's never too late. Just as you're highlighting that, I want to say, like, we've seen adult children reconcile with parents. We've seen teenagers find new pathways forward. In our work, we work a lot with kids who are in foster care, and so they're experiencing multiple different attachment relationships. And we've seen these pathways, these ideas this way. Like you're saying it wasn't just we were learning Mandarin, we also had to teach our kids that too. And I just want to pause for a brief second and say, it's never too late. So if you're listening to this and it feels like the ship has sailed, it's over. It's not over. My relationship with my dad is changing, and I'm in my 30s, and it will continue to change. And that's partly just natural. As people grow, relationships change, but also you can make decisions to do that with some intention, too. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [00:32:15] Speaker C: I want to give us maybe a little milestone or a way to evaluate change that's happening in our home. Because I think especially with this kind of parenting, it can be really hard to see change or to recognize something is changing in you or in your children. And we often talk about frequency, intensity, and duration. So if you've got a three year old who is having frequent, intense, very long meltdowns, then. Then what you're looking for as you're making changes is, you know, it's not for the meltdowns to stop, guys. Feelings like people will be feeling their entire lives, right? [00:33:05] Speaker B: People will be feeling. [00:33:06] Speaker A: That's okay. That's the podcast for the day. That's the episode for the day people will be feeling. [00:33:12] Speaker C: But like, how, how frequently are those meltdowns happening? How epic are they? Are they as intense as they were? And even if they are, are they not two hours, maybe they've decreased to 45 minutes, like over the years. And I know that can be really depressing to hear if you Are in those really tough years with. With your parenting of a specific child. But you can see that frequency, intensity, and duration decrease. And I would even say for myself, too, my yelling frequency, intensity, duration was decreasing. My flipping out, my. Like, all of that was changing in me too. So maybe give you a little, like, hook to or lens to look through when you're trying to evaluate, like, does this even work? Is anything changing as you. As you practice it consistently over the months? And then I remembered my second thing. It is practicing these skills is not objective. It's deeply, deeply personal, y'. All. It's personal. It's to the core of who you are. That's what connection is, right? You are knitting your heart and soul to another person. It's the way that we act with our family members differently than we would act with anyone else. Like, I am dear friends with Becca and Tana. They know the real me, but they don't know the me that my family sees. I'm not like, you know, anyways, it is our. Our family is the most personal, intimate relationship we have. And that is why I went to a camp recently, and I was assigned be on the behavior crew. And I was telling Tana and Becca this week, like, I was a little intimidated by this. I was having a little imposter syndrome. Like, am I up to this task? I don't know that I handle this perfectly with my. My own children. So am I. Am I going to be able to practice these skills with kids all over the camp? There are, like, five people in the behavior crew and 550 people at the camp. Okay, y'. [00:35:26] Speaker A: All. [00:35:26] Speaker C: It was awesome. I loved it. I connected with kids. [00:35:31] Speaker A: We de. [00:35:32] Speaker C: Escalated kids who were escalating, you know, like, I. I did it. I practiced these skills with children, and it was. I. I don't want to say magic, but it felt beautiful. Right? And good and dare I even say intuitive at this point. [00:35:49] Speaker A: There it is. Yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker C: But what I want to tell you is that two thirds of the way through the week, I had an interaction with my own teenager, and it was the only time I've been. I was emotionally dysregulated all week. I was dealing with other kids behaviors all week long. Totally cool as a cucumber inside. When I was dealing with my own teenager in a. In a mild disagreement we were having. Oh, my goodness. I felt it just rising up in me. Like, this kid. Why does she always think she knows, you know, like, those things that happen in us when we're dealing with the. The people very closest and most Intimate to us. And so I just want to validate that some of this is happening because you are connected, because you have this attachment with each other that goes so deep and is so strong. So, I mean, it just means more. It automatically raises the stakes for you. And so progress with those people, with the people closest to us, we get to learn together. And it. We're always going to be able to get a rise out of each other. Right. [00:37:03] Speaker A: But it's the highs and the lows. [00:37:04] Speaker C: It's also those people that make your heart soar in a way that, you know, someone else's child might not. So. [00:37:13] Speaker A: Yeah, Jesse, thank you for sharing that. And I can imagine it was magical for you to be there offering that support to other kiddos. A couple weeks ago, one of my adult children and their spouse was at our house, and we had. Our couple of our younger kids were in the kitchen. It was late at night, so I had some, you know, young adults hanging, and then our two newly minted teenagers, our youngest two. And we were storytelling, as you often do in those situations. So I was getting some jabs by one of the older teenagers about our early parenting. And we, we talk about that very freely. We, you know, have done our best to repair and, and, and readjust our behavior that we were having. And I can laugh about it now. It was playful. I was like, well, actually, we didn't do that that many times that way. You know, we were. I was setting the record straight, you know, for their memories. I was like, this is how memories are stored. You know, it's like trying to give them a lesson about what really happened to them, whatever. While we were. It was very playful. We were having a really good time. But the younger children were. Our eyes were as wide as saucers because they do not know that mom and dad. They do not know the mom and dad that I was having to, in front of them, still continue to repair with the older children of the mom and dad they knew when they were young. That's right. And I just looked at everybody and I was like, look, the lesson. Here's. There's a couple lessons here. And I looked at one of my older kids. I said, the lesson is, I loved you enough to change. Like, you were important enough to me for me to become a completely different parent. And I wish that I could have and wouldn't have needed to do that, but you and I did that together. So thank you for being my guide on becoming new. And, you know, it was sweet. And, you know, I took a little moment and Then, you know, and then I looked at the other kids and I was like, and thank your siblings for helping mom and dad learn so that you get a different mom and dad. [00:39:04] Speaker C: You know, as the oldest sibling, I just feel that deeply. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Totally, totally. And that's just. And I was like, and this is the way of becoming human together. Like, I can be your model and you're always going to be a learner. Always be willing to learn something new and make a change and get new insight and never, ever, ever stop practicing new skills for your benefit and the benefit of those that you love deeply. So there it is. At some point, you're going to be able to say to them, I am. I still want you to know, I wish I wouldn't have done it that way, but I loved you enough to. Something new. [00:39:39] Speaker C: Yeah, that makes me want to cry. I loved you enough to change. And when you talked about, we get to do that together, that's what it is. You're learning and they're learning. That's. That's better than intuition. [00:39:52] Speaker A: It is. [00:39:53] Speaker B: It's better than the shame spiral. [00:39:55] Speaker A: It is so much better. [00:39:56] Speaker B: Stage parenting. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Let that go, y'. All. It just doesn't benefit you. Let it go. Let it go. [00:40:03] Speaker B: If we can just, I think, hyper focus on those individual relationships, right? Like, have them in your mind. You said it early on. The kid you're most disconnected from needs the most connection from. You love them enough to try a new way. I think that's what we can leave you with today is just love your people enough to be willing to look introspectively, to be willing to try something awkward, try something clunky, and then always, always, always reflecting on that and readjusting because each individual relationship will be a little different. Thank you guys so much. It was a great conversation today. I really enjoyed hearing from both of you. And if you're listening along, we'll link the video and our show notes along with some more resources from Empower2Connect. Thank you guys for being on this journey with us. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, the best way to support us going forward is to subscribe. We'd love to hear from you, leave a review, drop us a comment, share or email us to let us know what you hope to hear in future episodes. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. Until then, we're holding on to hope with you. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Sam.