[E216] Freeze: Stress Responses 101

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey guys, we hope your summer is off to a great start. We thought we would replay a few of our most popular episodes and in the spirit of the overviews we've been doing recently, we are going to rename this little mini series stress responses 101. You know, the summer and the transition into summer can be a really stressful time. There is a reason that they call it may sember or mayhem. And if you have experienced of these stress responses, there is no shame. These things are hardwired into our brains and into our kiddos brains. So as you begin to recognize some of these behaviors that you are hearing about in these episodes, maybe you might want to go Back to episode 205 with our stress and trauma 101 episode. That will kind of let you know a little bit about what is causing stress responses or even what is causing our lower brains to be a little more sensitive in the area of kind of setting off these stress responses. We hope that in seeing and bringing awareness to some of these behaviors that then you can seek to co regulate either when you're recognizing them within yourself or within your kiddo. So without further ado, here is stress responses 101 foreign. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Okay, well first of all, I feel like as we get going today, I need to preface that for you listening in the rest of the country, it's going to sound like we are all either underwater on a zoom call, whatever, that's because we are. I am not in studio today because I can't get there because the whole city of Memphis is under ice. That ice storm, I know all of us actually have been personally affected by it. Like we've got a branch sticking through our roof. Currently Jill has no power and Becca, her power has been flickering on and off. And so I'll just say that to say if you hear abnormal noises today, roll with it with us because we are all really, I think we're all in our own stress responses today as a result of our environments. But Becky McKay from ETC. Is here and Jill Stockburger, who is an expressive arts therapist who works with us in our Memphis Family Conn center clinic here in the city is with us as well. And so Jill, we're thankful for you to be with us. And Becca, obviously you too. We've been talking about our stress responses and how we move and mold through those. We've talked about flight, we've talked about fight. As a quick reminder, as I said in the intro, if you haven't listened to those, go back and start there because we're kind of Building on the content with each episode. So our stress responses is what happens when we go into our survival brain. We know the amygdala goes up and logic and reason go out of the picture. And so with that as the preface, today we're going to talk about freezing. And so, Becca, let me start with you and say, will you just kind of run through what. What does it mean to have a freeze stress response? And what does that. What can that look like? [00:03:13] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's also appropriate that everything outside is frozen right now while we're recording the episode about freeze. If you hear some tree limbs falling, everything is us and the world. The free stress response is what it sounds like. It's when you just can't move, think, speak. You're just stuck. And so what happens to an outsider looking in is you make assumptions about what that person is thinking or feeling or what their motivation is. And you might be like, they're ignoring me. Or you might think like, they don't care about what I'm saying. They're not showing me that they're interested. So we oftentimes assign a lot of motivation. Motivation there. But the truth is, for the person experiencing a freeze response, they can't. They can't talk, they can't move, they can't access their whole brain. And it's a really bad feeling. I shared last episode that I tend to flight when I'm stressed out. But there have been some times, maybe like in an argument where somebody's asking me a question and I'm hearing the question, and I'm just sitting there like, I can't form a word. I don't know what to say. I can't. And it does feel like it just feels like you're shut down. Like, it does not feel good. It feels really weird because you don't have access. And so you might see somebody zoning out, losing their words, having a feeling of being stuck. And for kids, sometimes they even fall asleep. So if a kid is stressed out by something, this happened at schools a lot where, you know, it's not always just that they're tired, but they might actually be so shut down that they start to go to sleep. So it's your body kind of like shutting down to preserve itself, to preserve its energy, to preserve its reserves. And it can be really weird from the outside looking in. We do a lot of vulnerability on this podcast, so I will share that. The freeze response is the one that annoys me the most when I encounter it, because the other ones, there's words happening and I feel like I can engage with the person and the freeze one as like. Like if I'm trying to help somebody or if I'm in a relationship with somebody and they're freezing. It's really hard me, because I'm like, can't you just tell me what's going on? So I don't know Jill or Jill, if that resonates at all. But just to be vulnerable with the people, that one is tough. It's tough for me. [00:05:33] Speaker D: It is. It's tough. Yeah. [00:05:36] Speaker B: Jill, you know we were talking about before we started recording today that I think each of us could identify a few kind of freezers that we've got in our life, or you even working with some kids and adults who've got freeze. What can that look like to those of us from the outside who are kind of seeing it happen? What does that look like when we see a stress response of freeze being kind of in place? [00:05:59] Speaker D: I think with little bitties I work with, oftentimes it might be lowering their body, getting small, almost like iceberg state. And I often think it is so important as a caregiver in that moment to use your body to connect and your breath to connect, to literally lower your body and get down to where they are, where you're lower. And it relaxes their nervous system. I had someone also send me a picture of their child one time, a friend, and their palms were up and they were sitting there cross legged and kind of just still and quiet. A high energy kid who had done this and asked the caregiver to go sit down and do the exact same thing and see what it was feeling. And she learned that he was regulating himself. He was trying to regulate himself. [00:06:52] Speaker B: So good. That's so good. Becca, any other thoughts here about what this can look like from the outside for those of us trying to identify it? [00:07:00] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think you might be hearing some of our ideas and be like, sounds just like flight. Think about. Flight and freeze are both trying to avoid danger, whereas fight is trying to fight the danger. And we'll talk about fun next time. But I think some of the same things, like you might see somebody covering their face in freeze mode. You might see somebody last week we mentioned the hoodie, like hiding under a hood. That could be flight or freeze. You might see hiding, like hiding under covers, hiding under a bed, the frozen response. Or it could legit just look like they're just not listening. Like it could look like they're just looking behind your shoulder, like zoned out. And sometimes kids do zone Out. So it can be hard. Sometimes people do zone out. So it can be hard to identify all the time. But it looks similar to flight. It's just less movement. There's usually like an aspect of immobility going on whenever it's the freeze response. [00:07:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So you know, when we are looking at. And Jill, you talked about this a second ago a little bit. If we're looking at the motivators for this, like what can send you into this response or what, what's happening, you know, kind of behind the scenes when this is going on. If we're thinking about the core of what drives people to freeze, is it the same as the other responses where it's kind of. Yeah, yeah. The same or is it, is it different with this one? [00:08:25] Speaker C: I think it's this. I think it's a lot of the same things. I think it's that self protection, that fear response. But it is this like withdrawing inward into yourself. And that can be maybe more so to avoid like shame, to avoid pain, to avoid being hurt. So it can be a little bit. It can, yeah. I think some of them are the same though. Like I think about maybe you're in an argument and so maybe it's that conflict avoidance that we talked about. Maybe you are just stressed out by like the task at hand. Maybe it's too hard for you. And so you go into that stress response could be sometimes a lack of skill, like, you know, somebody's giving you 18 directions and you can only remember the first one. So you get frozen because you're like, wait, what was I supposed to do? You know, and we do it all the time as adults. We're like, hey, let's clean up the table, get ready for dinner, get our backpacks together and get our folders and then get mad when they forget the folders. And so if you freezer and you've experienced well, she's always going to be mad that I forget the folders. Well, then you might just like next time, the next day you might just be frozen. You might be like, okay, I don't want to forget anything. And so it can be this like feeling of. I mean it is same as the other ones in that it's a feeling of fear. And I think it can come from similar places. Jill, would you agree with that? [00:09:42] Speaker D: I would agree with that. And I was actually thinking from a caregiver's perspective. Windows of tolerance. When we have the green zone, the blue zone, the red zone. I often with caregiver and child have them use many figures to illustrate each of those. I often think most caregivers don't think we go to that hypoarousal, that mode. But it is, it's a self preservation. I know when things can get chaotic, multiple kids in the room. I'm not sure I think as a caregiver when we enter hypoarousal or when I do, it's often when there are multiple children in the room, multiple children are dysregulated and I'm not sure who to go to first. And I can enter this self preservation mode, I freeze up. And so for me to be able to have this image, this figure when I do windows of tolerance of what I'm like, it helps draw me out of it. And to go back to explain window of tolerance, our green zone is when a child or caregiver is relaxed, their body is ready to move, curious and learn hypoarousal. Our nervous system is freezing up. We're stuck. We feel like we can't move. We're numbing out. Hyperarousal is a lot of energy in our body, very active and we're becoming dysregulated. [00:11:26] Speaker C: Oh, Jill, I love that so much because I feel like you just hit on another thing that triggers that freeze response is like not decision fatigue, but like you're faced with too many decisions and you can't choose where to start. So I love that you hit on that kind of that motivator for that freeze response. Thanks. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think too, I mean immediately, I think I've had that as a parent. Like I can think about recently going to Memphis Grizzlies basketball game, NBA basketball game. So, you know, lots of people coming in, you're after the game lets out, there's just pandemonium because everyone's excited. The game went so well. Everybody, you know, the Grizzlies won. So as we're trying to get small children from seats in the upper deck, like all the way down through the just caravan, I mean just so many people shoulder to shoulder, moving toward one place really excitedly. And that's involving an escalator, all these different things. There are just a thousand decisions to make in a moment. I've got one asking for a refill for a drink before we leave. One maybe in the bathroom. And I pulled them aside to the the wall and had to stop for a second and just be like, okay, hang on. And I had to take a breath and kind of explain like hey, section stands are closed, bathrooms right there. But it's going to be a very Long line. Why don't we wait till we get. So I had to kind of stop to decide and collect myself first. And if that's me as an adult, I can imagine those overwhelming states for kids are only going to be amplified in those situations. So it does help build some empathy to think about it that way. Jill. I think. [00:13:00] Speaker D: And there's so much right there, JD So much with what you just said. You pause, you lowered to their level. Right. And you collected your breath. You were able to calm yourself and enter their space and give them your calm and co regulation and attunement. And that came by literally lowering down to their level too. [00:13:21] Speaker B: Well, thank you. It did not feel like a skill in the moment. It felt like I'm going to do this or I'm going to die. So it was didn't feel like some massive parenting win, more like, hey, dad's got to do this. So I didn't have a panic attack in the middle of your reading. [00:13:34] Speaker C: Not called a stress response for nothing. J.D. [00:13:38] Speaker B: So true. So Jill, I'm thinking of your, your role as an expressive arts therapist. Like, you know, a lot of people might not be super familiar with the ins and outs of what that looks like. Do you mind giving us kind of an overview of what that can look like and then maybe some creative ways that using arts or skills in that arena that we could use to help maybe in moments where kids are freezing up. [00:14:05] Speaker D: Sure. So as an expressive arts therapist, I use the different art modalities of movement, music, visual art, drama and creative writing to really help bring a whole brain approach to healing, a bottom up processing and a neurodevelopmental healing to different trauma triggers within the nervous system. So a lot of times when we have those trigger response there in our right hemisphere, we do not have words. So if we were thinking in terms of the art modalities, we would think when our brainstem that instinctive reptilian part of the brain that is in freeze mode, we are stuck. Right. It's so important because our breathing to return to that breathing is going up, we're feeling stuck, we're drawing in. And for a caregiver to come down and lower their body so that their mirror neurons can activate and you can offer your calm to that child and slow that stress response down, even if you're marrying their hands a little bit, because we know any type of movement will draw them out of that frozen response. [00:15:30] Speaker C: I love that you're saying that though, Jill, because I wonder if people do know that. I think you've said it a couple times and I just am like, it's like making me think back to situations where I dealt with a freeze kid. My go to a lot of times is to talk more. And I love that you over and over again, like, move their body, get on their level, mirror what their motions are. Because maybe even more, a little bit more than fight and flight, the body has to be engaged. Like, if we don't engage the body, we're not going to be able to move through to the next phase. Right. Like, I'm just, man, I'm just really resonating with that because, like, with a fighter, if they're yelling words, we can use calm words and movement, but we can use words. But with the freeze response, I just love that you're highlighting with got to, we got to think about the movement, we got to think about the body. We got to get on their level. I think that's so, so insightful. [00:16:23] Speaker D: We do. And those are reactive responses. I think some proactive responses for our freeze kids are to have some of those symbols. Whether, I mean, I have always been amazed when you throw out paper bags, how every age group will start making puppets out of them. So ahead of time, with our freeze kids just knowing, practicing, drawing out characters of what they feel like in those moments, like I said, having a little minifigure. Mine is a yeti. That's what I feel like when I go into freeze response. I'm bulked up, anchored in just not wanting to move. And when I have that symbol in my head or I show that to someone who cares about me, they can read my expressions, they understand what's going on and there's an understanding. So that is a really proactive approach for our freeze kids. I also think the few words is really, really helpful. I go back often to the TBRI principle of two choices. I think for our freeze kids, offering them two choices is really important. Multiple choices is overwhelming. A lot of verbal processing is really overwhelming when our kids are in a free zone. So just two choices gives them the ability to maybe make one choice and increase that voice and empower them a little bit more. [00:17:51] Speaker B: And that is so good. And I think about the, the, you know, economy of language. One of the phrases that we use in our if you see parent course is that maybe the biggest struggle for me as a human being is to use economy of language. And I will catch myself like in a moment where I'm trying to talk through with a kid. And sometimes it's just that the words aren't Coming, you know, quick enough to my brain to consolidate them. And sometimes I'm so frustrated or upset that I am, you know, allowing that just to come stream of consciousness. But to be able to remember it does build some empathy and some decision making moments to say like, man, if more words are going to send this kid deeper into freeze, I can stop for a second and think about what the most concise way is. I can say this and that might help to draw it out. Becca, you know, I think as we kind of turn toward our last thoughts this morning, like if I am somebody who struggles with the freeze response myself and Jill, you mentioned a second ago, can I have a character or a symbol or a quick thing you could show someone who loves you to let them know where you're at. Becca, can you think of other tactics, like for those of us who struggle with freeze ourselves, like what are some ways we can use to get that help we need? [00:19:15] Speaker C: And Jill, jump in if you've got things that I haven't thought of. But I think the first thing with every response is you have to know it about yourself. Because if you don't know it about yourself, you're just like going to go into the spiral of shame and why couldn't I think of the right words and why did I get stuck and all those things. So I think the first thing always is take a minute, think about yourself. Think about moments where you tend to freeze. Even though I identify with flight, if I'm in a big argument, I'm going to freeze up. And so what I need to know about that is I need to give myself a couple of those short phrases. I need to learn how to say I'm a little stuck. That's a couple of words, four words, I'm a little stuck. And then I need to be able to at least try to practice saying those words outside the moment. Hey, sometimes when we're arguing, I get a little stuck. Next time it happens, I'm going to go ahead and tell you that so that you know what's going on. So just giving yourself before the moment of stress, some strategies, like a couple of phrases you could use. And then if you know in the moment, it's going to take practice, right? Like if you are somebody who gets super, super, super frozen, we talk about this every time. You're not going to automatically just become somebody that can snap out of it really quick, but you can work towards that. So think about moving your body like, okay, I'm going to go get a drink of water. And then like we talked about, we don't want to avoid the conflict or the stressor altogether. We want to hold ourselves accountable. And so I'm going to go get a drink of water and then come back to this situation. If you're the parent standing the room with the four kids and you don't know where to start, I'm going to walk away, I'm going to grab my cup of coffee and I'm going to come back to this situation. And give yourself some movement that can help get you unstuck. Taking a drink of water, like something just that simple sometimes can really help to move your body from freeze kind of out of it a little bit and you'll have a little bit more access. And I think, yeah, just, just know it about yourself, tell your people, and come up with a couple of strategies. I'm sure I'm missing. I'm sure I'm missing other ideas. Um, yeah, I'm sure I'm missing other ideas. JD and Jill, you guys might have some other ones that you're thinking of. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I mean, I think that's all so, so good. And I think, you know, we've already talked a lot about how to support our kids, our people who are struggling with freeze kind of as they're freezing. Jill, you touched on something a moment ago when you talked about outside of the moment, like outside of one of those stress response moments, having kids identify with characters or find, you know, miniature action figures or cartoon characters or whatever to identify with. Are there some other ways, especially in the realm of the arts, that we can work with, you know, our kids, friends, spouses, partners, you know, neighbors, whoever, outside of the moment, to help them identify with those moments in particular. [00:22:05] Speaker D: Sure. So if I'm going to think about whole brain integration and we'll just do it from bottom up. Proactive strategies. So first, thinking about returning to our breath, thinking about our brainstem, I think practicing breathing outside the moment, there's a fun little book called Alpha Breaths and there's a different animal breath for each, each letter of the Alphabet that you can practice with your child. And then I think for us caregivers and adolescents, headspace or even the simple 4, 7, 8 breathing technique is really helpful for our freeze component. So practicing that, returning to the breath, slowing down our breath and using it outside of movement, I think just practicing with one another, practicing moving down when you see a child in that moment. For our caregivers who are frozen and when we go into that state, even drawing close to a child can help us then that human connection, those mirror neurons, will pull us out of that state. So even a movement like that, like as Becca was saying, I might go get a sip of water and then come back and find one child I sit next to or I draw close to in the room, and then I can start reading how I might help them and move out of my state and engage in parenting again. Right. And become emotionally present. If I move up to the limbic system or mammalian part of the brain, I think in terms of visual art and drama. And that's where we do that simple. Like making puppets or drawing out a picture or practicing in that way with the puppets and then moving up to that symbolic. That top part of our brain. Because when we are in that stress response, we are not in our logic brain. We are not in the left hemisphere, that right hemisphere, really thinking in terms of symbolism. That's those scripts that Becca was talking about, those few phrases. Like I said, sometimes little minifigures or characters help draw us out, separate us from the moment, externalize the stress response, and create understanding between caregiver and child. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Gosh, that's so helpful. I mean, I love all of that. And I think about the character thing in particular. We do have a few go to. Are you feeling like so and so in the movie Inside Out? It's obviously been very helpful for us with that, but, you know, it is. It can be a really helpful tool. And so thank you for that, Jill. Becca, as we kind of close up here, do you mind giving us. And we've covered a bunch of ground today. Do you mind giving us a quick recap of kind of what we've talked about and then sort of our closing notes for people today? [00:25:06] Speaker C: Absolutely. I'm thinking of one story that I think kind of sums it up. I worked at in schools for six years in different roles, and we had kind of a classic freezer. A little guy who had been through some significant trauma, who would literally sit in the corner, cover his face. And so outside the moment, what I knew that I had to do, because I had time and other people didn't, was be super playful and connected with that kid. So as many times as I could see him throughout the day, when I had time, I would pop in, I would say hi to him. He would draw me a picture, I would draw him a picture back. We built a connection outside the moment. And then every morning, and it was like clockwork, every morning I get a call over the radio. Ms. Becca, can you come to the cafeteria? Your friend is in the corner. And I love what you're saying, Joel, with all these different creative ideas. Because what I learned from that kid was that I was going to have to be flexible and creative every single day. And so one day I grabbed a soccer ball and started kicking it against the wall. And then he joined in with me and started kicking it back and forth, forth to me. Another day I gave him a piece of paper and I just started drawing like you're saying Jill with the mirroring. And then he started drawing next to me, like, I didn't say anything to him. I just sat down and started drawing. And it was like, then I would try that again and it wouldn't work. And so what I had to do, willing to be creative, because it was that it was having those creative ways of like, my goal is to get side by side with this kid, show him that I'm with him, and try to help him be. Move back to Jill talked about the logical language part of his brain, and he just couldn't. And so that's one story that I think of that I think about all the time when I'm thinking about freeze. Because, you know, I want, I want to tell you guys, give them, you know, give them a notebook and tell them they can always draw their feelings. And that's going to work twice out of 50 times, right? And I want to say, you know, get them a drink of water and that's going to work maybe five times out of 50 times. And I want to say, I want to, you know, you know, and I think that this is something that we have to walk the line, right? Even on this podcast of like, we want you guys to hear these practical strategies and tools, but there's no one way. And even one kid, there's no one way, but the more you get to know him, this kid was into sports. So the soccer ball or I would be drawing a picture. I don't care anything about football. I would be drawing a picture of football because I knew that he would want to color it. And so just like connecting some way with what they're interested in. We haven't talked a lot in this episode, but using play and playfulness can be really helpful. And another thing that you can do, especially at home, is if it's not like, if it's not a time directed request that you're asking them to do, and you can tell that they're frozen. Being in the same room, but not forcing them to talk to you can help them to settle down. So like, kid who needs to do homework and they're just frozen and you can tell they're frozen. Maybe you grab your laptop and you just sit next to them at the kitchen table and you just do your work and see if they ask you for help or whatnot. But don't push it, if that makes sense. Just being in proximity can be really helpful. Sometimes it is like I've got to ask you to do something or I've got to ask you a question. But sometimes kids freeze up and we just observe it and just get close. Just offer yourself in proximity. So those are just anyway, kind of maybe scattered, but a couple of thoughts that I have about how to support somebody who freezes. Maybe some of that will work if you freeze yourself as well. And I just think we always, always want to offer connection and presence as our go to no matter what the stress response is. And don't get discouraged if you tried the drawing the football yesterday and it doesn't work today. Just don't get discouraged. Continue to be flexible and creative. [00:28:46] Speaker B: That's so good Becca. Thank you. Jill, thank you. I feel like this has been really, really helpful and practical. We can't wait to talk to you all again soon. [00:28:59] Speaker E: We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, the best way to support us going forward is to subscribe. We'd love to hear from you, leave a review, drop us a comment, or email us to let us know what you hope to hear in future episodes. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. Until then, we're holding on to hope with you.