[E191] Myths Pt. 1: Connected Parenting Means No Rules, Limits, or Structure

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families, and our communities. I'm JD Wilson, and I am your host. And today on the show, we've got Julie and Jess Cultivate Connection facilitators with us from the west coast of the United States, and they're going to be talking with us about one of the connected parenting myths that exists, which is that I can't offer my kids structure and still parent this way. That is something that we talk about extensively, so I won't go into it now, but, yes, you can. So we're going to debunk that myth today on the show. So now, without any further ado, here is Julie, Jess, and Becca talking with us about the myth that we can't offer structure to our kids in a connected way. Well, as you said in the introduction, we're here today with Becca McKay, of course, and Julie Salwasser and Jess Layne. And so we're going to talk about, uh, something that is a myth of connected parenting that's, um, I would say, whether you call it a criticism or a critique or whatever, um, the idea of, uh, as a structured person, I need to give up my structure in order to meet the needs of my child. So we're thinking of you type a person who has got everybody on a very tight schedule, who's got. Who keeps lots of stuff running, maybe high achieving kind of people. This is something that is brought up a ton. And so we were talking before we recorded, and Julie and Jess both, we mentioned folks that have been in courses that we've taught who have brought that concern up. And I will say, when I've heard it brought up before, it's brought up in almost a panic of, like, oh, I feel like this is why we should be parenting, but I can't do that. Like, I cannot give up the high structure. So before we go too much further, I guess, Julie, let me start with you. Why don't we just introduce you guys first and then we'll talk through this whole idea? So, Julie, who are you? [00:02:08] Speaker B: Yes, I live out here in Washington state. I'm a homeschooling mom of three. I'm new to homeschooling, which, talking about structure, has also brought a whole new phase of structure and seeing the need for it. But I have. I'm also entering into the tween phase, which is exciting. And my youngest, we actually adopted from Columbia. So when thinking about just supporting families, a lot of that comes from the world of adoption, and that is just still a huge part of what I love to do. And, yeah, married to, married to Brian. He works in law enforcement and just happy to be here. So thank you so much. [00:02:50] Speaker A: Awesome. Jess, why don't you introduce yourself and then we'll go. Super. [00:02:55] Speaker C: So, vocationally, I am an associate pastor for our church locally here in Vancouver, Washington. Me and Julie go to church together, and I have the privilege of parenting three sons. So I've been a three sons mom for 23 years now. My oldest is 23. I have a 19 year old and a 17 year old, so I don't have any little ones at home, per se. But I also have the privilege of co parenting my nephew with my sister, and he's nine, which is just a real privilege and honor. My husband and I both help out with her when we can. And so in my job, I get to lead children, I get to lead the children in ministry, so I get to interact with families and children every single week, every single weekend, which is a real privilege. But another reason why I absolutely love cultivate connection and TBRI and implementing these principles all the time. So that's a little bit about me. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Awesome, awesome, awesome. Okay, so, um, let's jump into this conversation. I'm too structured of a person to do this. I can't. I can't hold, uh, connected parenting and structure together. Why, uh, Julie, why is this a myth? [00:04:05] Speaker B: Why is it a myth? Well, I just think that, especially once families and caregivers really start to understand and. And hear about connected parenting, what I have found is that a lot of times, they don't know what it looks like. They hear about it and they hear about compromises and giving the child voice and even the specific scripts that are used. And to them, that does sound a lot like permissive parenting. That sounds like, oh, gosh, I'm just handing my kiddo all of this control, which means, obviously, if I'm giving it to them, then I am letting go of it, and they just don't know what that looks like. So, what I have found is that when talking to parents, modeling what it looks like and helping them, like, hear what it might sound like for their kids is really, really helpful. But to them, the myth is that, okay, I'm giving it to my child. So that means it's like this exchange that has to happen rather than seeing that balance that we talk a lot about. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Didn't feel a lot of times like, the assumption is that you're signing over your power and, like, giving it transaction to your kid not letting them have little bits of it while you still sort of hold the reins. Right. Like. And of course. And that does sound like an absolute nightmare, and your kids are not ready for that yet. Right. So that is definitely it. Um, okay. So, Jess, I wonder when. When this is brought up in, uh, your class, how do you begin kind of broaching this topic with people when they have this concern? [00:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Um, I think one of the main ways that we, we kind of came at it was really emphasizing the importance of that high structure and high nurture that both have to exist at the same time for this to work and. And then helping people recognize, like, I am a naturally high structure person. So I learned even just along my leadership path that, oh, gosh, I have to focus a little bit more on empathy. What does that look like and how. How do I do that? How do I stay focused on what's the emotion in the moment? What is the kiddo or the person experiencing? And how can I support that but also maintain that same str. That structure, that high structure at the same time? And I've actually found it to be a less chaotic time. When I sort of stay really heavy in structure, then I'm constantly, no. And this, and I'm pushing my way through the moment. But when I'm able to bring in that high structure, high nurture at the same time, then things can stay calm because I'm just able to then go and explain and look at what is their frustration? Why don't they want this to happen? Okay. How can we compromise? And that is just a much more. Once you get it down, it's a much more peaceful place to exist. I have found. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I agree. So I think one thing that is talked about a ton is the type of structure that's being offered. Right? So, like, when we say high nurture, high structure, but then there's conversations of compromises and shared power and yes, stays and these things, it sounds like, what the heck kind of structure is that? So, Julie, will you talk through maybe just. And maybe the better starting point is we talked about kind of the individuality that exists within, within this parenting that you and Jess might have different types of structure that are high for you guys and what that looks like? [00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. We do have different types of structure because I will say I have had to grow in my. In myself in terms of structure. Like, I am not actually a naturally structured person. One thing that has worked for me is, and actually, I do think it was when we were going through Cultivate Connection that I heard this first is that sometimes in life, the structure is the activity and the outside influences that are put on your child or on your family. And that has actually been very helpful to me because I am not a naturally structured person. So it's not always my systems and my expectations that are offering that structure. And I view it as, especially, again, I homeschool. There's things we have to get through in the day, and then we head into our evening activities, and we have theater and sports and church and different things that that is putting some structure in on my children. And so my opportunity is then, okay, this structure exists in life. I know that if I can bring my natural giftings of nurture to those structured pieces, that's where things do happen more easily. When I'm tired, when I'm moving too quickly, when I just see the structure as the goal and I forget to bring my nurture, that is where, like Jess is saying, things get a little bit rocky and more challenging. So, for me, the individual structure, yes, I do have my own preferences and my own structure and how I like to do our home life, but it's actually more influenced by just the structure that really influences my kids from the outside world, the expectations that are put on them, which are sometimes uncomfortable and they are not within their natural abilities and gifting. So that's how it looks like for me. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, Jess, what about for you? So as a naturally high structured person, what was that finding that balance like, and how did you approach that? [00:09:57] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I think that, you know, well, so I operate like, I'll just use my nephew as an example. I really love to talk through a day with him, like, talk through what's going to happen. And that's just, for me, that that helps me in general, like, what we have to do and what that might look like. So then I'm setting his expectations in advance, almost like I'm looking ahead to see what possible issues could we have so that him and I can talk that out together. And so that that has been really, really helpful. And then when, when we hit those moments of, you know, issues, then I'm able to be a little bit more present with him and be like, oh, you really, you don't want that. Or like, for instance, last night, you know, we were having a meal that wasn't his favorite. He liked most of it, but there was a part where I recognized the type, the texture of some of the food I was Afghan to eat was like, just messing with his head really bad. And so just that moment of like I am not arguing here. He ate the majority of his food. He is going to go to bed happy and healthy and we're good and we're just going to move on from there. So in those moments, you know, it feels to me like as a high structured person I can be more flexible with compromise if I'm like helping him map out the day and looking ahead and seeing what's to come. So that's one, the one thing that's helped me. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Sure. Um, I wonder if, you know, you guys have found that there be commonalities. Obviously there's lots of different uh, types of people that are jumping into classes with you, um, from all different backgrounds and all different parenting styles and parenting situations. And so um, do you find there to be a few common uh, like tips or tricks that work for um, for setting this up in the beginning? I mean it might be like Jesse, you're talking about like scheduling out the day or might be like explaining the structure of outside stuff. But are there, are there a few common things that tend to be great starting points for, for most people who are in your classes? [00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think again, I go back to just helping people see what that looks like and what that sounds like. So part of just how I naturally do it is I almost start to like immediately role play. So I'm explaining like this is the idea and then I'll just naturally go into maybe what it might sound like for to, to a child. And I do think that that helps people understand the concept of like oh, flexibility can sound like this or nurture sounds like this. And that has been, that's been really helpful because I think it's just, you know, as a parent, of course, the hardest I think again for me is when I don't feel confident in something because then I'm more quickly to react rather than thoughtfully respond, you know, when my kiddo is inserting their opinion or when they're having a hard time in this. And so that has been really helpful to me is that anytime we talk about the structure nurture balance is to give that example in this scenario when my kiddo doesn't want to eat something or when they're having a hard time in this particular environment, how can coming alongside with some of that nurture, you know, within the demands of the moment so wherever they're at, you know, there is the expectation. How does that actually sound in supporting my child? [00:13:18] Speaker A: That's really great. Yeah. Jess, anything that adds that I think. [00:13:24] Speaker C: Example is just, I mean just to touch on what Julie said, we found, or at least I felt like in class, the more examples we were able to give and the more scenarios we were able to talk through with the, with the families helped them, help them to feel more confident and. Okay, actually that does make sense. I think now I hear what you're saying. You were talking about authoritative. You're not saying permissive, you're not saying let them walk all over us or, you know, I have to just all the things that are important in our house and our family values is out the window and we just gotta, you know, let them do whatever they want. It's like, oh, no, you're not saying that. No, definitely not. Your, you know, your family values and your things that are important in your home also still matter. But we can do both at the same time, you know? [00:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that acknowledgement that parents are, they are doing really good things. I think, you know, if the people don't want to give up this sense of control or feel like they have been failing their child all along. So just acknowledging like Jess makes this sound like Jess, you know? Yes, TBRI and cultivate connection. There are those methods, but Jess's version of that is going to sound like Jess and Julie's. And so I think just empowering people to find their own voice and how to offer that structure, how to offer that nurture, I think is so important. And it kind of like girds them up with like, okay, I can do this even though it feels uncomfortable and it might be different than what I've done or different than my personality. Here I go. I'm going to give it a try and it might be a little wobbly at first. And that's okay, too. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so speaking of wobbly, you kind of referenced this in the beginning. You're, you're transitioning to the homeschool season, right? I know we have a lot of folks that are in homeschool world who are listening and maybe some who are, are just about to start that transition or have just started any kind of words of wisdom as a wobbly homeschooler, setting up, you know, setting up the old situation at home. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:15:25] Speaker A: I guess as it pertains to this conversation. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Don't lose sight of your child in front of you. I think the biggest challenge with homeschool is you come into it with the ideas of how it has to look because it looked like this when they went to school. This is how a classroom is run and that's the, and I've heard this from other homeschooling parents, that going through that mindset shift of, like, it doesn't necessarily have to look like that in my home. Like, that's the beauty of homeschooling. And I think, don't lose sight of your child and the opportunity to see your child's natural giftings and use that as a really jumping point, I think is really good. And that's nurture. Right. Because the structure is how the classroom experience is. And yes, we need to get through math, we need to get through English, we need to get through some of these things that are requirements on us. But by seeing my child and how their unique brain is working or how they are excited about certain things is really great. And I'm going to say it again, you can't do that quickly. You have to be willing to slow down and change the pace. And that can, again, feel uncomfortable as the parent, because I have my goal, I have the four subjects I would like to get through today, but I have to be a little flexible in. [00:16:56] Speaker A: That sometimes, especially with multiple kids. Multiple kids, right. So, Jess, let me ask you this question. This is something that you can. We asked Julie about homeschool. So for you, you're parenting, uh, young adults and teens now. So you've watched lots of this, the stage transitions, right? The, like, life stage transitions where, um, the way it is felt for us at home is you start to get a feel for, like, you know what, we're in a group here, and then you. That word comes out of your mouth here and you realize you've now gone to a different stage and nothing works anymore. So I wonder if you would speak to just kind of like, the mindset it requires to, uh, to help keep those balances of nurture and structure through those different age stages as. As your kids are growing up in your home. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Yeah, that's really good. Well, I'll just echo what Julie said. To not lose sight of that. Whatever child you're working with and working on, really, that was so true. I couldn't have had more different sons. You know, like just their journey through school, their journey in school, you know, how they. How they interacted with curriculum and things like that. And so really taking into account their personality, being a detective, we talk about that and cultivate connection so much and being curious about why are they pushing back and what's really happening, and then thinking about the scaffolding piece, like, okay, are they really ready? Because just because they're twelve or 13 or 14 doesn't mean that academically they're twelve or 13 or 14. And so what does that kiddo need? And I've talked about my middle son before, about laying down kind of cultural expectations, for me, at least. I mean, I talk to people about that one on one all the time, that you have to do what's right for your family philosophy and what's right for your kids, the kids that are in front of you. And so for my middle son, what was right for him was a GED path. And for some families, that is just mortifying the thought that they didn't walk across the stage and have the high school diploma. But for us, through some prayer, I'm sure most families don't enjoy arguing with their child every single day when they're homeschooling. That is not fun because we did a combination of homeschooling and christian school and stuff throughout all my boys journeys. And I just hit a wall with my middle son, like, gosh, he's just kind of cheating. And, you know, yeah, the answers are perfect because he's not. He's just cheating. And then. Or else. Or else we're arguing. I'm like, I mean, yeah, you're so smart. You can figure out how to find the answers online. I don't even know how to do that. But so through some prayers, you know, decided, hey, this is the right path for him. The right doors opened, and then, sure enough, he'd never worked so hard. I've never seen him work so hard with school. And then we got him into it. He got to go to work. And so, you know, having some work experience, and then, you know, working on the pace that he needed to for his GED, he became a totally different kid. And it was the absolute right decision for him because we were willing to kind of step back and go, okay, you know, this school looks different for Thomas, you know, and that's. And that worked really well. So, anyway, I would recommend that. And even for myself, you know, the son that I still have at home, it's the same thing. He's just a very independent, really studious kiddo. He does Bob Jones. He does it on his own. I don't micromanage him. When it's done, it's done, and then we buy the next year. So matchy. So, anyway, I think Julie really hit the nail on the head, though, by saying, just kind of don't lose sight of the child that's in front of you and the one that you're working with to help them and support them through school. [00:20:33] Speaker A: So I love that and I. I think about my brother and I were very similar ways. Like, we had very similar stories. Like, we both were kind of on the, like, american education system conveyor belt. Like, you know, we're just, like, rolling through public school growing up, and I was. I have, you know, pretty severe ADHD, but not. Not diagnosed until I was married to someone who said, we should go get tested. And so when I was going through school, what that looked like was missing a bunch of assignments, sweet talking a bunch of teachers, getting the makeup stuff ready, and then I would. I would. I was smart enough to kind of, like, pull all the strings together at the last minute to have, like, meh, grades. Like, good enough, fine, whatever. The study habits were not improving at all. And so, um, my brother was. Was a little bit the same way as. As I was. And so, uh, when he, uh, got to college, though, um, he just. He was also competing athletics. So when he got to college, like, you know, competing and the pressure of all that stuff, he was like, this is dumb, and I am out of here. And so he decided he was going to take off and head to the mountains. And so after that time, though, like, he got. Got, you know, into a place where he was doing some training to. To be a guide, like a wilderness guide. And it was kind of in those moments where he. Where he realized, like, oh, man, if I have this training, and then if I go back and get a business degree to learn how to run my own business, I would crush it out here in this industry. And so then he had an idea of exactly what he wanted to do. Went back. School is not an issue. Again, got done. So I think what. What was great for him was to figure out, like, to open the pathways up and say, like, I don't have to follow this set track and sound in front of me. I can just sort of find my own way. And then once he found this body, wanted to be, it was like, okay, now. Now I know what to do, and I'm going to go through. That's not to say that college is always the answer for everybody, because it's not. I think that's one of the. One of the messages here is that when we're given the right amounts of structure to our kids and the right amounts of nurture, that includes helping them think through all the different pathways that they've got. Becca, I wonder for you, you know, you have seen this principle of, like, high structure, high nurture, you know, playing out in school settings a ton where the stakes are a little bit higher. Because, you know, at home you might like a full, full house, might be four, five, six kids at school. Four, five, six kids is a, is a vacation day, right? So, like, you might have four, five, six kids in the detention office at a time or something, right? So I wonder, maybe I wonder for you, um, if you would shed some light on, like, how when you started learning these principles and began putting them into practice in schools, what were the big benefits of, of adding that balance of, of high structure and high nurture and were you able to do it in a connected way? [00:23:40] Speaker D: Not right away. I think everybody, when they start trying to do this, they're going to lean one way or the other. And I leaned so hard towards nurture, and it really didn't help. Might help the kids that I was trying to care for. And so I was like, oh, well, I can't, I can't. That expectation is way too high for them. They can't meet that. And so I would kind of drop expectations too far and I would give a lot of nurturing care. And I think something that we talk about on this podcast all the time, but it's so hard to do, is you have to have the high nurture and the high structure at the same time. And so I think the way that that looked for our students was, we're not going to change your schedule, but we're going to give you a visual of your schedule, and we're going to practice it with you, like, a bunch of times in a fun way. Then we're going to hold you to that schedule. So it's that both and versus. When I first started out, it was like, well, they just can't do that. It's too many transitions, so they just don't have to do x, y, and z. That was my first knee jerk. Like, how I thought I was supposed to care for kids. And then I learned, like, it's okay to lower expectations while we practice this, while we role play it, while we figure out what you need. But then how do we get you back into that routine? And then there's structure with, like, man, you think about, like, I did social skills groups where we just practice taking turns. Like, that's all we did. We just practiced taking turns. And guys, usually we played uno to do that. Like, it's not, it wasn't like anything earth shattering. It wasn't even like a super expensive therapy game. It was like, hey, bud, you have to practice taking turns in class all the time. That's a structure that keeps the whole class moving forward. Together. And so how do we practice that outside the moment? But then when you go back to class, we're going hold you to that structure with a lot of nurture. Like, oh, not your turn yet, bud. Like, it's so and so's turn. Does that make sense? So it's like, definitely no, I didn't do it well at first, and I don't know if I ever did it well, but I definitely gave it a good try. Like, I cared a lot about trying. And I think you have to see the value in structure to want to try because it's easier with one kid, it's easier to just back off and be like, it's fine, you don't have to do this. Like, that's easier. But that doesn't help them grow, which I'm sure we've already mentioned. You know, the doctor, doctor Purvis quote about, if we give too much nurture, we are going to keep them from growing. If we give too much structure, we're going to keep them from trusting. So they need both of those things. [00:26:10] Speaker A: We had not mentioned that out of purger's quote because we knew you would bring Becca. We knew. We're like, let's let Becca have. That's what we said. [00:26:18] Speaker B: One of my favorite things, and I, again, I think I heard this through cultivate connection at the beginning, is just that phrase, meeting the needs within the demands of the moment. Because I just think, like, especially, like, you visualize these settings and they have demands, they have expectations, and they have, you know, these, these. The structure that's being put on a kiddo. And so then how do you, like, not remove that, like what Becca's saying, but how do we meet the needs? How do we make it more possible for that kiddo to sit still or to act in the way that is expected? And again, also kind of doing some advocacy and helping the environment understand that the kiddo has these needs. But that's, like, one of my favorite things, because especially if you're thinking about a classroom setting, everybody can take a big, deep breath, like, okay, I'm not totally expected to change everything for these other 15 kids, but we can still work to support the kiddos so they can also be successful alongside these kids. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:25] Speaker D: Hi, Jeff. [00:27:25] Speaker C: I'm so sorry. [00:27:26] Speaker D: I have to say one thing about that, Julie, because you just sparked it in me. Kids are really able to understand that fair doesn't mean the same for everybody. Fair means everybody has what they need. If you teach them that, they can. [00:27:39] Speaker C: Pick up on it. [00:27:40] Speaker D: So we get scared of, okay, but everyone at, like, 90% of the kids in my home or my classroom or wherever, Sunday school class, they're fine. So if I let this kid have a different choice or have a different way or have a different support, it's just going to completely fall apart and be chaos. And it can. But if you intentionally talk to kids a lot about, hey, we all just need different things that can be, like, I've seen that be successful, and I've seen students step up to be a peer mentor to help the kid that needed a little bit of a different kind of help. And so I just think we get scared to even try it because we're like, everything must be the same for all people all the time. And even in your own homes, like, you're not parenting all of your kids the exact same way because they have different needs, they have different expressions and different strengths and things. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so good, Becca. That's true. And that's also how we care for ourselves, right? Because, like, the four of us are four very different adults and need very different things in order to give the people in our lives what we need to give them. Right. And so, um, if we can just remember that I, you know, look outside, like, trees don't all require the same amount of water based on which kind of tree they are. Grass doesn't always require the same amount of sunlight based on what kind of grass it's like. So all of us, uh, need different things in order to thrive, and that's true for our kids, too. And so the idea this one size fits all thing doesn't exist anywhere in the world in a life cycle. Right. Um, and so if we can just remember that, that can help us to remember that, it doesn't mean we are losing power. Gaining power. Giving in to kid what we are giving each kid what they need, um, when they need it. And. And that's going to be a combination of the high structure and high nurture. Um, and it is possible. And so we're debunking the myth, right? [00:29:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Can be challenging, but possible. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. For sure. [00:29:34] Speaker D: And debunking the myth is really encouraging, whether you lean towards nurture or structure. Because if you lean towards structure, it's encouraging of you. You can keep your structure, add in a lot of nurture, and that might mean a little bit of flexibility, a little bit of choices. But if you lean really far, nurture, and you're really struggling, it might be time to think about, I might be too low on my structure and that can be hard to hear, but I think that that is true. I don't know when y'all have been, um, when y'all have been, like, leading class in your local community and things, how do you. Do you feel like you see that? Do you see both sides of that? Do you see those kinds of experiences? Do you see people kind of trying to find their balance? And what has that looked like for y'all? [00:30:19] Speaker C: Yeah, well. Well, I'm thinking of a few families that I. That I want to introduce the high structure, high nurture to because I. Because I see them really live in that high nurture. And then we have kiddos that we're experiencing that are, you know, high anxiety. You know, that that's my been my experience. And I'm like, gosh, if they could just get on board with this, keeping that nurture right where it is, but bring some structure to the table, gosh, these kids are going to feel more confident and more secure in what's happening in their world, and so. But I think we. I don't know, Julie, remind me, but I feel like we had maybe. Maybe more of the structure. Like, people that maybe had more structure because. Because we had, like, six educators in our last group, and so we had quite a few that were kind of teachers and things like that. [00:31:09] Speaker B: And so, yeah, I would definitely agree. I think that this is a bit of a generalization, so it might not be totally accurate, but I also just think, like, sometimes you can just see in their personality, like, if they have, like, that confidence and they're leading with, like, this, you know, they have children in their own home, so there's a bit of experience there. And then you match it with, like, parents that are maybe parenting toddlers or they're new to parenting, and it's almost like you can see that as, I mean, I guess, you know, with experience comes that structure because that's where they're finding their control and that's where, like, their confidence. And I was the same way in the sense of, like, the hardest seasons of parenting is when I felt out of control. And that's when, you know, these tools gave me that. It wasn't that anything necessarily changed with my kiddo, but it more, like, introduced me to be reflective on myself and it gave me the tools and I found confidence. But I think that you can almost, like, see it based on either experience or, you know, other circumstances that it's just like, when we're in a class and we have people in front of us, it's like, oh, can peg, almost without even meeting the kids. Like, you're like, hi, nurture, hi, structure. And it's really fun. [00:32:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, wrapping up with Jess and Julie and Becca, I wonder if we just have any last pieces of advice or encouragement to those and maybe to those who are really struggling to. Well, let's give specific advice in y'all situation. So, Julie, those who might be struggling to bring up the structure and then just those who might be struggling to bring up the nurture. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Any. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Any last piece of advice for those families out there? [00:33:11] Speaker B: I think that to, it just comes down, to slowing down and just because if you are not a high structured person, it's like you have to offer it twice. Like, I know I cannot just offer structure to my kids without offering structure to myself first. Like, no, Julie, you do need to get up off of the couch, or you're the one who needs to go help the kiddo know how to clean the bathroom. Like, I still have younger kids, and I want to just give them a verbal direction and have them execute it to the level of my approval, and it doesn't work that way. And so I just think, like, slow down and give yourself grace and remember that, you know, you are also needing to raise up the structure on yourself to be able to pass that along to your. Your kiddo. And I also think there's a lot of value I just really believe in at the level that would be appropriate. Help your child understand why. Like, why is it important to have these systems? Why is it important to have, you know, why does your teacher lead the classroom this way? I wonder why and how can we help your teacher accomplish that goal? How can you help me? Our family have an organized house because it gives them the buy in, and it helps them feel valued in the midst of it. Rather, none of us really like this, like, system or process just put on us. And so I think that those, like, slow down. Remember, you need to increase your own structure for your own self, perhaps, and then help your kiddo feel valued in that structure and why it really matters. [00:34:56] Speaker C: That's good, Jules. I think, for me, the path to empathy or the path to having, you know, more nurture for a highly structured person for, like, myself is to be curious. I think when I. When I learned just that concept, it changed everything. And we're able to look at either the kids we caregive for or the kids that we parent and look deeper and past the behavior, past whatever's happening in that moment where I want to insert structure. Like, no, you will do this now. Or whatever. And I'm able to look at past it and see what's happening actually. What is the need right now that they have? And so being curious, being a detective about their behavior, why did that behavior continue? Why does it keep happening? Every time this particular subject comes up has helped me to bring up my nurture and slow down. Like the. The key either way is slowing down, like Julie said, and then being able to go, hmm, okay, so this is, you know, bringing in stress or, or they just simply don't know how to do it. I'm assuming that they do based on their age or something and then realizing actually, no, they don't. And so if I can just help them, you know, my nephew really does not like to be alone, but that kid is really good at schoolwork. But if he has to do it by himself, he doesn't want to, so he hides it, throws it away. I don't know. So just sitting next to, to him and just giving him that second of like, okay, someone's with me in this. He has it done in like ten minutes. You know, it's amazing what just a little bit of, you know, detective work can do for the nurture piece. [00:36:29] Speaker A: So, Becca, any last advice? Huh? [00:36:34] Speaker D: My last advice going back to the myth. You have to give up structure to be successful. If you believe that myth, I want to push you to look for opportunities to increase structure because your kids, your family, your classroom, your community probably needs you to take that step. And if you tend to not enjoy structure, like Julie said, it's going to have to start with you, and that's going to be really hard. On the flip side, if you are like, this myth is completely not true, just know that you're right. You can hold your high expectations, but don't miss opportunities to give nurture, to be a little flexible, to give some choices, to give some variability in the how. We like to talk about how the demands of the moment, the what might not change. We need to get in the car, but be more flexible and curious about the how can we be silly doing it? Can we hop on 1ft? Can we do it backwards? Can we add any playfulness so that we're keeping the structure of the transition but meeting it with high nurture, that's what we mean when we say that we need both. So that's my advice for both, both kinds of listeners. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. Well, Jess, Julie and Becca, thank you guys for joining us today. This has been great. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Thank you. It has been such an honor. We love, we love you guys. We love empowered to connect. Such a blessing in our lives. So very grateful for the opportunity. [00:38:01] Speaker D: We love you back. [00:38:04] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:38:09] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Julie. Thank you, Jess. Thank you to Becca for joining us today. And, I mean, just a helpful conversation. I mentioned the episode. I'm not a super high structure person, uh, naturally. So it was very helpful to be able to, um, just hear from folks who also are not like Julie, but also just, you know, as a high structure person, hearing how she thinks through it. And again, the key is just you are finding a balance. It is a balance of high nurture, high structure. Um, and coming to a place where kids have predictability they need, they also have the nurture they need. Empathy, compassion, all that. So thanks to them. Very helpful episode. All right, that'll do it for us today for everybody here at etc. For Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio. For Tad Jewett, the creator of the music behind the empowered to connect podcast. I'm JD Wilson, and we'll see you next week on the empowered to connect podcast.