[E230] When You're Tired in Your Body with Jill Stockburger

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. All right, we're here with Jill Stockburger today and we want to talk about how there is a kind of tired that sleep doesn't fix necessarily that many parents, especially adoptive foster, kinship parents, parents who are experiencing trauma themselves or whose kids have experienced trauma, they feel physically exhausted in ways that are hard to explain. And so do the teachers and the therapists and their caregivers who walk closely with children who've experienced stress and adversity. So we want to talk about what do we do when we are living in chronic stress or we are experiencing kind of those impacts of stress and adversity and trauma. And today I have Jill Stockburger here with us today and Jill is a friend of ours at etc. Tell us what you're up to these days, Jill, and why I've brought you into this room. Introduce us to you a little bit. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Yes, Good morning. It's good to see you again, Jesse. You too. One of my all time favorite people to work with. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Oh, that's super sweet. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Yes, I have been a longtime friend of etc. It has meant the world to me, both personally in my home and professionally. I am a trust based relational intervention practitioner, a professional counselor and expressive arts therapist, have been married for 20 plus years, have four children, two that are beginning to adult. And then we have two for babies too, a golden retriever and a little 9lb mini kind of looking golden retriever. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Cute. I'm sure the adulting children are cute too, but that 9lb mini golden retriever is sounding extra adorable to me today. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Yes, they're. They're the glue. They're the glue to the family. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Jill has practiced in the Memphis Family Connection Center Clinic when we were offering clinical services and is often a go to when we're stumped with the problem or we're needing to just kind of unlock in a creative way because of that background in expressive arts therapy particularly, you just have this way of problem solving and finding solutions that may not be those very first inclinations that we have when we're thinking about how stress is showing up in our body, how the impact, how trauma is impacting us, how to talk with our kids, how to relate with ourselves, how to even kind of unlock things within ourselves. So I'm really excited to have you here for talking about what, what do we do when we feel tired in our body? [00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited about this subject and I think it's, it's timely with the season we're in. We're in winter after the holidays. I think everyone kind of. We kind of seasonally draw a little bit more towards this hibernating and noticing our bodies a little bit instead of pushing into that fatigue, you know, and pushing away from it and trying to fight it so much. Leaning into it a little bit in order to have different times of different types of rest is really important. And finding some practical habits and rhythms through this season that we can carry forward. [00:03:58] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know about our listeners, but I'm going to guess that they can relate. When you just think about all that's gone into November and December and the beginning of January, and we've gotten the kids back in school, we've maybe gotten back to our own paid work or, you know, back to restoring the house into order or whatever it is that we're doing during our days. But the budget's recovering, our bodies are recovering, the family rhythm is recovering. There's a lot that goes into that hibernation mode and the rhythm of January. And then even for me personally, I kind of hit the ground running at work. When I came back to the office, so to speak, it was like I had pressed pause on a lot of work as we went into the holidays. So it's like, okay, it's time to pick this up and we've got new deadlines and that's really hard when we are feeling tired. So, yeah, it is. I want to start with some big picture framing. Just when we think about the caregivers that we're talking to on this podcast or caregivers that you work with. Jill, what kinds of physical exhaustion do you see the most often? [00:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think culturally, years ago, back in. It was probably 2015, a book, the Body Keeps the Sore, came out by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. And it really kind of drew attention to where trauma actually lands and that's in our nervous system. And then there was, I think there's been a rebirth kind of out of that. When you look at like Dr. Mona de la Hook and her parenting, when she talks about the body, when she talks about attunement and co regulation and how much non verbally our nervous systems pick up and feed off one another, especially us as caregivers. I think the COVID pandemic really drew attention to this. And moving out of the COVID pandemic, the ripple effect of that. And then even most recently, I mean, I was looking at Justin Whitml. Early and his book about integrating our body with our faith. It's just really interesting. I think as I look at the trajectory of culture, how we're kind of going back to ancient wisdom and there really was not supposed to be a separation between our brain and body. It really is all together. And so I do think we start. We start feel our emotions first in our nervous system and we're picking up on our environment all around and all of a sudden we start noticing our body feeling really slow and sluggish, heavy tense muscles and just a fatigue. Right? Yeah. [00:06:57] Speaker A: I'm thinking about all those times you've seen caregivers and their children or teenagers walk into the room and it's. You can probably see it on their faces and in their body, the way they're carrying, whether they're aware of it or not. [00:07:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's. You just, you start kind of slipping into. You know, we talk about windows of tolerance a lot, right. And that window of tolerance getting smaller and smaller. And on one side we might with anxiety, we might get real fidgety and very, very tense and our body's moving constantly. But there's another side of caregiving and parenting too. And that's the other zone where we just kind of start slowly numbing out. Right. We just are so overwhelmed, we start numbing out a little bit. [00:07:52] Speaker A: I like that you're kind of drawing out some things that we might notice about ourselves without realizing that we are maybe extraordinarily fatigued and tired beyond the normal busy parent. You know, like being a parent, it's just hard. Being. Being a caregiver, working with children is hard. And so for those that are listening, that are like, no, it's like this all the time. What are some things that we can be thinking about and looking for, even bringing awareness to that lets us know, hey, this might be a little bit different than just having a busy week. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I really love when I first meet with caregivers is looking at the window of tolerance and integrating a little bit of humor with it. I might pick, I have a bunch of like little minifigures and I have them go pick kind of their anxiety mode. A figure. You know, for me, that's like a little dinosaur. Right. And kind of my very calm down pose. For me, that's like a horse. And then my kind of numbing out pose is this big giant walrus. Right. I just feel really slow. And when we can integrate a little humor in it, then we start noticing it a little bit. Right? [00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I like that even just being able to kind of externalize it in those pictures of the dinosaur versus the walrus versus, you know, how we are when we are feeling regulated and. Right. And what we're able to tolerate our normal amounts of stress. [00:09:30] Speaker B: Right. And I think culturally, we are learning to start naming transitions a little bit more. We're going back to a little bit more of that ancient wisdom. There are seasons, there are transitions. There are rhythms and rituals within our day that we need for rest. Life still might be going and be busy. Yet there we can slow things down with some rhythms and rituals that provide rest. [00:10:01] Speaker A: So for those of us listening, and we're like, okay, well, I might be in walrus mode. You know, I definitely have that show that I'm just binging and burning through so fast as I numb out every night. Or, you know, the revenge procrastination is always real with me. It's like I will stay up way later than I should, trying to take back my day only to hurt myself by not getting enough sleep. Right, that's right. Or, you know, you're in the anxious mode where it's just you're going, going, going, and you can't stop, you can't sit down. What's so bad about that? I mean, we're. We are like, why should we. Why should we support ourselves in those seasons versus. I don't know. Do you hear what I'm asking? It's like, yes. [00:10:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:52] Speaker A: What do we need to think about as we notice those things about ourselves? [00:10:57] Speaker B: Right. I mean, I think for most caregivers out there, right. [00:11:00] Speaker A: We're. [00:11:00] Speaker B: We're really thankful with the information that maybe generations didn't have before us. Right. And I mean, I don't know if anyone's like, you all, and I'm, you know, in my late 40s, so perimenopausal. I'm so thankful for all this information and caregiver information. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:20] Speaker B: But I can also get into overload on that. And then the reverse of that is, like you said, numbing out, binge watching a show. I've. I've gotten into overload. Right, Sure. [00:11:34] Speaker A: I mean, I think what's wrong with our nightly. Our nightly bowl of ice cream, you know, to cope with the day, to cope with our stress. [00:11:42] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. I think a lot of freedom comes in first, just naming. What we'll do is we just kind of go and we'll numb out, but if we kind of name before that. I need to numb out for a little bit. I need to watch this show, I need this, you know, just for a little bit. And kind of naming that ahead of time can be a lot of freedom. I think we can resist the season. Like when I talk about wintering, that's something I'm currently, I'm at the retreat house, and one of our themes is talking about savoring the season. And instead of fighting that it's winter and what's wrong with me and trying to diagnose all these things, right, It's. It's winter, where it's kind of a pulling inward for a while so that we can move into the spring and rebirth. So those are some kind of big picture themes. And then practically, I think with some of those habits, what does it look like to get back to kind of our circadian rhythms a little bit right now? So what's a small morning routine and night routine that we can do, you know, is a really practical way to start establishing a little bit of rest. [00:13:06] Speaker A: I like those ideas. I'm thinking about even, you know, we keep coming back to this idea of wintering. And we've talked about this on the podcast before, but just. Are you familiar with the lazy genius? [00:13:22] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:13:23] Speaker A: I love her and I really like how she marks seasons as well. And I read something of hers and it inspired me to think ahead of time. Like, what. What does feel good and restful and what am I wanting to cultivate in the season of winter? And so I think I probably thought about this for the first time last year and it was like, what helped? Well, I want it to feel cozy. I love the sunlight. We don't get a ton of it in the winter. And so I can start feeling really blue and lethargic and, um, even just take the stress aside. Like, just in. In my normal winter reality, I know I'm gonna feel a little sluggish. So it was like, well, what's the other side of that I could lean into? Cozy. So I started putting, like, cozy blankets everywhere in my house and like, things, you know, things that made it feel warm and homey to me. You know, I picked up a couple extra candles and some things like that. And anyways, it has really helped me just kind of embrace that season of darkness, you know, with the. The twinkle lights and the candles and the blankets and the hot tea and all of those things that kind of just help me feel like I'm doing this on purpose versus it's happening to me. I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about the parent that maybe is kind of living in crisis mode right now and is in survival. You know, maybe. Maybe there's been a new placement or maybe there is a major medical concern happening right now or some other type of. Some other type of hard season. It's really difficult. It's difficult to reclaim, rest and feel. Get back to that. Get back to that. What I'm searching for my words here. [00:15:28] Speaker B: But that even a routine or rhythm. Yeah. I mean, I think about. [00:15:33] Speaker A: It's hard to get to that when. [00:15:34] Speaker B: You'Re living medical crisis or high crisis mode. When I'm working with that or new placements or bedtime can be very stressful. Right. When you are trying to establish routines for a child that has been through complex trauma or is going through a medical crisis. Right. Those are periods of that. The morning routine. Right. And a bedtime routine can be high stress. I do think oftentimes we hear a lot in the counseling world and it is so important. The five senses grounding technique. Right. And within this. This technique, it's a way. Because so much anxiety is produced by future and past. Or we talk about triggers. Right. And often that's a past event or we can be triggered by future thoughts. And so we talk about in those moments, coming back down and grounding through our five senses. But I like to make that a little more proactive, practical, in that I think it's really hard to look at a child and say, let's do our five senses countdown. Right? Right. Yeah. And even. Even if you're an adult who's kind of a mover and stuff like that, or in your daily routine. So what is. What does that practically look like? Is it grabbing a snack and noticing the color and texture and slowing down a little bit? Is it grabbing a hot tea and carrying that with you and feeling the warmth on your hands? Right. Like you were talking about. What is one sense that we can ground back down? Is it putting some music on in the background that we know will. It's a different type of attunement. It's called entrainment. And we will get us on a rhythm and change and shift our mood. What is. Oh, my goodness, there's sun coming in from that one window. I was in session yesterday and it was kind of a. A dark day. And there's windows all along the art room wall where I am. But sun started coming in this one corner and I was with this kiddo and I said, I just. I said, let's get up and just go stand in that sunshine for just a little bit, you know, and we took one Full minute. Just standing in that at sunshine and noticing what it felt like. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Oh, my. [00:18:06] Speaker B: Going through our senses and finding different ways. What's staring at that twinkle light for just a little bit and savoring just for. Let's ground that back down for 30 seconds, you know? And just as you're doing that, notice where might there be a little bit of tension in my body? Is it my chest? Is my shoulders? And take a big, deep breath and breathe into it a little bit and just release that one thing I really. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Love this part of. I'm making so many connections with things I do anyways. [00:18:37] Speaker B: And I'm like, look at me. [00:18:38] Speaker A: I'm grounding in my five senses. [00:18:41] Speaker B: Yes. That's what I try to show caregivers all the time. Celebrate those small wins. There are so many things that you are doing, you are doing. You just don't know you are doing it. [00:18:52] Speaker A: We have had a season that was really hard in our past when a kiddo was going through a lot medically and we were spending many days in the hospital. And I remember, and I have brought this forward. I still do this, but often I would be, like, all day, every day in a hospital room, and there's not a lot of change of scenery. And there would be two or three things, but they were involving my senses that I was gravitating towards. Anytime I had to wash my hands, which, if you're dealing with a hospital that's going to be often probably trying to keep from getting sick and your kiddo getting sick. And so anytime I washed my hands, I would turn the water to warm, and I would just let that warm water and I would close my eyes and I would let it go over my hands for, like, 10 seconds. And, you know, like, just that feeling of the warm water on my hands, and I would just allow myself to slow down and feel it just like you're describing. I didn't realize it was grounding me in that season, but it really was. And I love to find a sliver of sunshine. So, yeah, if. If the sun was shining that day, I was opening up those shades wide, and I was wanting that sunshine to come into the room. And there were particular, particular tastes that I would seek out and kind of savor at a certain time every day of, like, you know, whether it was my husband bringing it up when we were getting ready to change who was in, who was in the room, or, you know, taking a quick break to the. To the cafeteria. But I remember, like, again, closing my eyes and, like, just letting myself taste that taste, that was salty or sweet or sour. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think a key word right there is. You said you savored, you know, And I think let's pick one, one sense and savor for even 30 seconds or a minute and try to then connect where we're releasing one muscle, you know, or something in our body. And breathe in and exhale. Okay. [00:21:06] Speaker A: I love to hear for. I love to learn from you. I want you to teach me more about entrainment and I want you to tell me why doing these things with our senses, which seems so simple. How is that going to give me a greater sense of rest if I'm feeling exhausted? [00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, first, I think with. Like I said, I. I really like to celebrate when caregivers. There's so many things that small, small bites, right? So I call them small bites. And you are doing them. And we're going to celebrate those small bites and those small wins, you know, because I think we can, we can go. We've. I've got to take a huge nap. Well, you know, when you're in a lot of crisis or I've got to establish this certain specific routine. I mean, that. That might not be tangible right now. So when we can do those small bites, there's a huge ripple effect, right. And I think I like to look at. We look at triggers, but we also need to look at glimmers, right? And these are little things where. That we notice where we're going back to that in that windows of tolerance where we're calm or we're excited. And that can be a smell or a sound or a touch. I mean, is so huge. But in trainment, I think people. This was really interesting, you know, when Covid hit, we couldn't go to concerts anymore, we couldn't go to a sports stadium. I mean, whatever. Any of those things that you loved, right? And trainment is that feeling, you know, if you're at a Grizz game and a certain song comes on, you know, or chant and you're all in it, right? And you just feel it, right? Or a concert, you know, all sudden an old song that they're well known for comes on and everyone's singing and you just feel this connection with people around you, right? Those are big picture. That's entrainment through music. And that's when our neurobiology all lines up and we can give each other energy, but in the home we can do that with some, maybe some music in the background. I mean, I'm. You know, there's going to Be some people that are like, I can't stand that. And that's okay. That's not your glimmer Christmas music. The older I've gotten, slow Christmas music. I started really early, you know, and. [00:23:40] Speaker A: It'S good for you. [00:23:42] Speaker B: It shifts my mood, you know. It does. Or you know, with those, with teenagers being interested in their music, listening to their music. I mean that car ride, that can change and that's entrainment, you know? [00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. I think we can all think of a moment when we have experienced entrainment. I mean you're describing it and I'm like, oh yeah, I can think of those. But to be able to bring that home and to experience energy from that in a small way. I love that idea. [00:24:16] Speaker B: In a small way. Yeah, yeah, right. [00:24:20] Speaker A: Well, when we are, when we're thinking about just being, you know, so tired that we can't even relax and we're trying to find our glimmers and just our body is so frazzled and stressed. I mean, you were talking about the nervous system, what stress does in the nervous system and it, it over sensitizes us. Right. Like we are sensitized and, and more apt to become stressed out regularly. Do you have any tips for us on how some other things on how we can kind of soothe those stress stress responses in ourselves or soothe the over sensitized amygdala we've got going on as a result of chronic stress? [00:25:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've, we've been talking a little bit like we've been talking where words can't go. Right. I mean if you look at this thread and this theme that's good we've been talking about without saying it directly, entering where words can't go and then that can kind of move us to a place where words can eventually come. Right. Whether it be with our teens or with ourselves. I mean how many times has there within our brain, right above the amygdala and the limbic system, there's the affective side and perceptive side and sometimes that perceptive side can get overworking in thoughts and all of that and we cannot name what we're feeling. And that almost feels stressful, right? Yeah, yeah, it feels stressful. You know, we hear and it is hugely helpful, name it to tame it. But that feels stressful because we don't even know what we're feeling. We're so, so flooded. So like in the visual, in the art therapy world, within visual art therapy that's usually working with something very fluid can provide that release But I think in our everyday too it is, that's when we can draw near to someone or something touch wise that can just share that, share our nervous system with us a little bit. Right? It is, or it's that weighted blanket or it's staring at something familiar for just a little bit on the visual side. That is beauty to us. Right. Sometimes for me it's an old photograph, sometimes it's, I have a necklace that has a lot of meaning to me, connects back with my family. And just even holding that for a second and I can exhale and breathe, was talking to someone who is just really in that thin space right now. Not much, but she, she said one thing I won't give up is getting Trader Joe's flowers sometimes every once in a while. And for her, arranging those flowers and just being able to pass through and look at them gives her a little bit more energy to just do one extra chore. You know, not the not getting it all done, but take five minutes to do something she needs to do. [00:27:56] Speaker A: You know, I really love how you've pulled out that so much of what is needed when we are experiencing chronic stress or when our kids are or have or we're all in it together is that place where words can't go. And I do think that's your specialty. You put words to that. For me, I'm like, oh, that is what. That's one of the things you're so good at is just thinking through. Like when we are trying to describe something or we're trying to find a solution. So often that is verbal and you know, the secrets of like the way that our brains and our nervous systems are working in our senses and as, you know, visually and as we even make our own type of art or even draw or journal. And I always love hearing about that from you. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important. Obviously I feel passionately about therapy and counseling and all those different venues that we have access to and the research. And I'm so thankful for it. And I think it's important to remember how do we practically integrate that into our day to day life. And there's so many, I mean, say we hear a lot about eye movement desensitization, reprocessing EMDR right now in the therapy world and so thankful for it. And sometimes I remind people that walking is our natural emdr. When we are walking, our eyes scan back and forth, right. And we're taking, we're kind of grounding our senses a little bit. So for me, when I Come home from work and I've been given the gift of learning and hearing and sharing in people's journeys. And I need to transition back home and taking a walk around the block with my dog, I mean, my dog helps calm my nervous system. And that walk is a ritual. It honors the transition and it honors what my body actually needs and helps me process that non verbal. [00:30:25] Speaker A: I did not know that about walking. So that's fascinating. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:30:31] Speaker A: You're also naming things that probably we can identify that we pursued and enjoyed doing during the COVID pandemic. Right. Like I took so many walks during that time period and you talked about looking at something familiar. I mean, that was what I was binge watching during COVID I went back to all those shows that I watched as a teenager and a young 20s. Something, you know, like I wanted. [00:30:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:58] Speaker A: I wanted the familiar. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Right. It brings a sense of comfort. I mean, the research is actually there. It's so interesting. Something that our bodies knew. Right. Like your body intuitively knew that you needed that during the pandemic. Going back to those memories or those familiar, you've seen them over and over again. Right. I watch, you know, my dad passed away almost eight years ago Christmas. I watch a movie that we watched as a family. I know almost every line to it. Right. But it's familiar. It's a comfort. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I think probably our listeners are just resonating with that. And I, I appreciate you've said this several different ways, that our bodies for the most part do seek these things out. We may not realize why, but if we will give ourselves permission to slow down and allow ourselves those things, it doesn't have to be the giant 15 step routine that I'm tending to want to implement in my life or the, the weekend off that is not attainable. I mean, to slow down and savor these things. It can be enough for now. I'm thinking about advice too, that I've read before about if, you know, not everybody's like me, but if you are like me, I tend to. I'm pretty hard on myself and I'm, I'm wanting to get it all right. I'm wanting to get it all done. It's very hard for me to ask for help or to pull back from what I was doing. And I've read the advice before that when we are tired, really tired in our bodies, that to allow ourselves to just add one thing instead of all the things, you know, maybe it is during a time of crisis or it is in the time of a new Placement in your home. And so you're focused on coming back, getting back to the homeostasis of your regular life instead of adding all those things back. It's like, just take one a week. The idea of, okay, this week I'm just gonna. I'm gonna shower. I'm gonna make sure I get a shower this week, or, okay, and next week I'm gonna make sure that I get my cup of coffee every morning, you know, instead of holding ourselves to those higher standards that I often am doing to be able to. It's so hard for me to cut stuff out. But when we're in that season of deep, deep fatigue, to be able to pull back and think, like, what is essential here? And can I ramp up to it versus trying to load it all on myself? [00:33:56] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. It's like I said, those small bites, you know, celebrate those. Celebrate those wins. I think it's important each day, if you can even think what's what, what was a win of the day, and how am I going to celebrate that? And then, then eventually maybe you have that script you can put in your head. Like, I'm talking to Alma, all my young mamas, you know, who are in the thick of it, and it's so, so physical. And, you know, you can. You are like, forgetting to feed yourself, and then there's just a lot going on all at once. And you cannot meet everyone's needs, and you weren't made to meet everyone's needs, and you're trying to. Who. Who do I. Who do I reach to first? I could have had a tendency, and I noticed this a lot. You start catastrophizing. If I don't do this, they're going to be X, Y and Z. In middle schooler, we get so far ahead, we start catastrophizing, right? And so I'd have to remind myself, like, I'm just going to sit down and have half a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you know, and come back down, right? So for in my head, even as I have children beginning to adult and so much less that I can control, in my head, it's have a peanut butter jelly sandwich. It just reminds me to come back. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Down, that's your small bite, and do. [00:35:28] Speaker B: The one thing that's my small bite. [00:35:30] Speaker A: I love that I don't know that I have just one thing, but I really love the. The capturing of that. To be like, well, I can do this. I'm going to do this next. Yeah, Yeah. [00:35:44] Speaker B: I mean, this is. This is Funny. At two years ago, you know, my word for the year, which I love that idea and the intention of it, but I decided my word for the year was just going to be try. And I was just going to try each day, you know, and it was a way to really let some self compassion come in and focus on the small bites. [00:36:17] Speaker A: I love that word, try. Do you know what my word for the year is this year? [00:36:22] Speaker B: I can't wait. [00:36:23] Speaker A: It's no. [00:36:25] Speaker B: There you go. [00:36:26] Speaker A: I'm really bad at saying no to things and people and obligations or things I feel are obligations. And so I'm giving myself permission. And yeah, that is my word. I'm kind of tickled because as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about even this really difficult season when there was lots of behavior going on in our home and there was medical stuff going on. And I said my mantra for that year was I don't do 2015. And I just like, that was my answer to everything. I don't do 2015. And you were talking about expectations and the catastrophizing like, oh my gosh, my child's gonna remember forever that I didn't, you know, that I didn't put the ornaments on the tree or whatever all the things are that we do in our regular year. And I just gave myself permission to be off the hook that year. I just said, I don't do 2015. I remember every single holiday that came, I did the bare minimum and it was my permission. And so maybe you need to have a I don't do 2026. Like we're not doing this year. We just, you know, I'm just making it. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. And I think there's, there's a huge amount of empowerment and modeling that for our children, adolescents, adult, you know, kids beginning to adult, even those that are in the grandparenting years. Right. You know, coming back down and I need this right now. Right. [00:38:09] Speaker A: And my oldest kid was four turning five that year. And she does not remember that mantra of mine. She does not remember the things I didn't do that was in my head, my expectations of what I should have done that year. So it was a different kind of year. But nobody's holding it against me. I want to, I want to give you, all of our tired people out there listening to this podcast episode, the permission to know that it can be a different year, it can be a different season, and it doesn't have to be that way forever, but it's okay to be that way now, right? [00:38:47] Speaker B: Right. At the permission of that. And to be. And I know this sounds exhausting in one way when you are. When we're talking about really being in that tired body, like the extremes of that tired body moon. But even giving yourself the permission to be a little bit curious about. Maybe you are the type that finds that that is play to you and relaxing and you love decorating, you know, and. And doing all the things. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Sure. Maybe. Maybe putting the ornaments on the tree is your happy place. Y. [00:39:28] Speaker B: And you're happy place versus being in the floor. Right. You know, so being. Being curious kind of behind that. That's cooking for me is like, I really enjoy that. That is. That's my five senses grounding because it's active and I can actually tangibly complete something other day. And so I kind of put my hula hoop around that. And kids, you know, it's great to cook alongside your kids, but that's kind of my hula hoop, you know, like, this is. I'm gonna have this time to myself and do this. Yeah. [00:40:07] Speaker A: I like thinking about that, and I like thinking about how that's gonna be different for every single person, because I know when I am just, like, so, so exhausted, it's the cooking that I actually let go. So I love thinking about how it's the one thing you won't let go because that's like a source of peace and joy. Right. For you. But I think also knowing it's also okay to let that go. If that's not your hula hoop. Right. That's not gonna be your small bite. [00:40:43] Speaker B: That's right. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Yeah. That ends up looking for us, like, okay, well, we're gonna eat fast food on this night. We're gonna have cereal on this night. Or maybe we're going to have cereal all the night. It's. You know, and that can be okay. That week. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And that's. And sitting around. Sitting around and enjoying that cereal and being present with them. You know, I mean, that's. That could be hard for someone else, like, sitting there and, you know. [00:41:12] Speaker A: Sure. [00:41:12] Speaker B: And being. Yeah. Present in that moment. Yeah. [00:41:16] Speaker A: Man. It was a revolutionary to realize when my kids were young that it was okay to serve cereal for dinner. I was like, wait, I can do that? Yeah. Yeah. [00:41:28] Speaker B: I mean, yeah. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Some of y' all have already been there, but it took me a couple years into my parenting to realize that that was acceptable. So. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think. I think when we can, let's, like, get down to the goal versus how it looks like, you know, family dinners Right. Kids get older and. Or maybe they're in activities or your different things or you're needing to go to a bunch of, you know, different therapies for a season. And then families. Dinner starts getting stressful. The idea is just to have a moment of connection. So maybe it's at 9 o', clock pulling in for a cereal or a little snack before bed and it's, it's just coming together. Right. [00:42:14] Speaker A: You know, we have started this kind of ritual in our family where we usually have a TV show that we're watching once a week together. And it. We kind of all come together on Sunday nights and we're going to eat. I mean, what we eat has, has evolved because we get sick of what we're. We were eating popcorn, then it's like, we'll do charcuterie. And then I was like, I'm not putting these together for everybody. This is supposed to be an easy night, you know, and then now it's, it's been like whatever you want from the fridge kind of thing. But the point is that we're like enjoying that show together and I love that. It's like, it just kind of lets us all off the hook on a Sunday night when we're normally spinning out a little bit with the Sunday scaries. It's like, oh, this week's gonna be so busy. There's so much to do and instead we can just enjoy something together and give ourselves an easy night. So that's something we've collectively been able to do as a family. [00:43:11] Speaker B: I love that. Yeah. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Jill, I love talking to you about this kind of stuff. I mean, I always learn new things. I always think about things I have known in different ways. So I really appreciate you coming on and spending your time with us. When you think about our, our caregivers and helpers that are listening to this episode and just in the thick of it with, with feeling so tired in, in their bodies. What's one last thing you want to tell them to encourage them before we leave? [00:43:46] Speaker B: Oh, I just, I think they're doing so many things well without even realizing it. You know, I think understanding that your nervous system is wired be out of love and care, that you're picking up on so much around you, you know, and that is love and care. So be compassionate with that. That it's not just your feelings or sensations running through your body, it is all those ones around you that your body is picking up on too. Right. And I think, and think in terms of what is one small gentle movement you can Do. Right. Whether that's slowing down as you're having a cup of coffee and noticing the smell of it, you know, whether it's having that hot shower once a week and letting that run on you, whether it's playing an old song that takes you back. Think of treating yourself in one small way and then releasing your body through that, you know, just one small muscle and noticing in that, you know, I think that's really important. [00:45:11] Speaker A: That's great. Thank you. You guys are doing it. You're making it. You're gonna make it. You're gonna make it. Find. Find those small things. And I really appreciate this advice from you, Jill. Thank you. [00:45:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And find that one person to maybe that you can without words. You know, for me, it was a couple of people that I could send the oxygen mask emoji, you know, the face mask emoji. [00:45:38] Speaker A: That's great. [00:45:39] Speaker B: And when I couldn't, it was hard. Like, that was the one small movement, and I just would press that emoji and send it to someone. And it was just a code and just them knowing that I was. My body was tired. I was tired. There was a soul fatigue. They passed, you know, past it, and I knew they were. They were sharing it with me. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's really meaningful. Thank you so much for being with us today. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you. Loved seeing you and hearing your voice and wisdom. [00:46:14] Speaker A: You too, friends. We'll see you next time. Bye. [00:46:18] Speaker B: Take care. [00:46:22] Speaker A: We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered 2 Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together.