[E227] Rupture is Inevitable; Repair is a Choice

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. [00:00:19] Speaker A: Hey, y'. All. Welcome to today's episode. This is Tana Oettinger and I'm joined today by Jesse farris and Becca McKay. And we have been chatting about what we wanted to talk about on this episode, and we're thinking about that. We posted an image on our social media, our Empowered to Connect social media this past week, and it kind of went a little viral. And before we started recording, we were just pondering why we think it was such a relevant quote. And here's what it is. It says, your willingness to come back and repair matters more than getting it right the first time. And it seems like that idea really resonated with our audience and our followers. And so we thought, let's just dive into that and talk about that. I think it. It feels relevant to the three of us. Right? This idea of repair is important, and it comes up in each one of our relationships all the time. So maybe I'm not super surprised that our audience jumped on it, but let's just dive right in. So I think, what if we talk about first, why, in these relationships that we're in, why is Rupture happening and what's going on? When we think about this idea of. [00:01:31] Speaker C: Rupture, you know, what is immediately coming to mind is that State Farm kind of commercial series of what's that guy's name? Mayhem. [00:01:43] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:01:44] Speaker D: Nationwide. [00:01:45] Speaker C: Hi, my name is Rupture. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Nationwide. Nationwide is on. Yeah, right. [00:01:50] Speaker C: I'm just like, my, my name is Rupture. Like, why does rupture happen? Because people happen. Ruptures happening because. Because we're not always attuned to each other. Because sometimes, you know, the way that I'm expressing something is hitting the other person who's receiving it. Funny. You know, maybe I'm being silly and that person was being serious. And so it feels like I'm being dismissive. Maybe my, you know, we've talked about my eyes on this podcast. My kids are very sensitive to my big eyes. Maybe my eyes are real big. And, you know, it's communicating something I'm not intending. Maybe my tone is really harsh or grating or naggy or, you know, cold. And that's hitting their ears and brains differently. Maybe they're hypersensitive and hypervigilant to any sign of threat or. Or like any kind of aggression, even if it's not coming from me in my Intention. They're picking up on things that I'm not intending. [00:02:57] Speaker C: You know, rupture just happens. It just happens. It might be my word choice. It might be. [00:03:04] Speaker C: You know, lately I've been thinking a lot about this. After the fact that it's happening. I have a tween, and so many times the first thing I say to her is something critical when I see her in the morning, because, you know, bless all our hearts. It's just hard to keep your life together. And there's, you know, I've. I've been in and out of town and for work trips and life trips and, you know, things. Things get messy in the bedroom or whatever else, and I find myself often without meaning to, making the choice to say the critical thing first. And then, you know, how's that feel? Like, good morning. I haven't said that. I've just said this room is a mess, you know, or whatever it is. There's so many reasons rupture can happen. What do y' all think? [00:03:54] Speaker A: I mean, I, I. What's coming to me is this idea of how many times as parents, to your point, Jesse, when we're just having a normal interaction and. And it goes away, you didn't expect it to go. And I think all of us have walked away and thought, ugh, I just wish I would have handled that differently, or I wish I could have handled that better, or I wish I wouldn't have said that, or, you know, why. Why did that go the way it did? What did I add to that? And I think, I appreciate that's. The thread that you're pulling on is that we are going to, as we interact with one another, have these very normal human moments where we act and do and think. Sometimes. I mean, act and do before we think. Sometimes, right? And even sometimes I'm thinking and I still do it anyway, but I look back and I'm like, wa, wa, wa. I don't know. Becca, what's on your mind? What do you think? [00:04:49] Speaker D: We're humans, right? Like, we're people. We are experiencing the world the way that we experience it, which means we're gonna get tired and fussy and cranky. And so I think in all relationships, conflict happens, which is another way to say rupture. But when it's with our people, when it's our family, when it's our kids, I think a couple things contribute to maybe why it happens either more often or maybe bigger. I think we tend to be our most true selves and our families, for a lot of us and I think that includes parents, adults, caregivers, and kids. So we may put on, like, a little bit more of a professional self, even if we're a kid at school or with friends or somewhere else. But when we're with our people, I think because it's our people, we kind of let our guard down. And so I think that's why in marriages, sometimes we're the most. Most critical and harsh and. And least patient. Or with our kids, like, I just think we're kind of letting ourselves be true. And the truth is, man, we got feelings. We got feelings going on, and sometimes they're not so positive, or sometimes we're just on different pages. Maybe I'm in a really, really happy, joyful mood and my family's not. And so then I'm causing rupture or brushing up against each other just because we're in different places. So I think, yeah, man, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I feel like it's just me, it's literally not just you. Like, I think it's just all of us. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that point you're bringing out. Becca. We were. Jesse and I had an opportunity to do a training this weekend. We actually were in Wisconsin. We took, like, a massive, mega road trip to go to Wisconsin and do a training. And we were talking about stress responses. And we asked the audience to think about the four stress responses. Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn, and which they identified the most. And I found myself giving them a caveat when I said, think about which one you identify with the most. I said, at home, when you let your guard down with your people, which one do you go to naturally? And I put that qualifier in there for exactly what you're saying, Becca. Right. Like, when we're at home is when we sort of let that air out in our kids and families. All of us do. Right. It's the place where we, quote unquote, are trying to sort of hit reset. So even when we're pursuing this idea of connected parenting or parenting with thoughtful attachment in mind, we are going to be doing that as a human who experiences stress in real life. And all of those things can come to play. [00:07:31] Speaker C: You said most true, Becca. And I, I want to give myself more credit than the way I act towards my family. Maybe most unfiltered, or we allow ourselves to be the most tired. Like, this is why our kids get in the car and give us disrespect, or get in the car after school and, like, just let it all hang Out. And we do the same thing, right, with our spouses and our kids versus, like, they've been at school doing the same thing we would do. My kids make fun of me for picking up the phone and sounding a different person with my friends, but we all do that. I think that can be my true self, too. It's just we sometimes we don't try as hard when we're with our safe people. And. [00:08:16] Speaker C: I think it's the repair portion after a rupture that then allows us to show our also true self of trying hard with each other. But when we are letting our guard down and when we're being unfiltered and letting ourselves be a little tired or have all the feels or. Yeah, we're going to step on each other's toes. And that's human. Like you said. [00:08:40] Speaker A: What I think I hear us saying is that rupture is natural, and it's a part of every. Every relationship, even those that we have as parents and caregivers with our kiddos. Right. And that we're not. Y' all have heard us say this before. Like, our kids aren't giving us a hard time. They're having a hard time. And I think we could say the same for ourselves. Like, if we're having a difficult time stumbling our way through an interaction, it's probably not out of bad intention. We're showing up in that moment the best we can, and we might be having a hard time. Like, as parents and caregivers, we are human beings trying to do something incredibly difficult by parenting. Parenting is so challenging. Right. And we're going to stumble, and we're going to have moments of our own personal dysregulation. I'm thinking about some ways that that has shown up for me both maybe in, like, how it's being experienced by my kids. Like, what are my kids experiencing from me? And then what's going on inside of me? So let's dive a little deeper in thinking about when those ruptures are happening. What might our kids be experiencing from us that's making us go. I like what you're saying, Becca. There's a point of disconnection. And what are they seeing, feeling, experiencing from me as mom? And then I wonder what's going on inside of me that might be making me act that way? So think about the behavior. What are some outward behaviors y' all have either done, seen, or experienced with parents that might be breaking connection with their kids? [00:10:23] Speaker C: I mean, I immediately think of kind of path A and path, baby, your kid does something that frustrates you and you either respond by bubbling over and yelling or you respond by just totally disengaging, like, whatever. And then there is that too. I just want to point out, I think is a rupture because you've communicated to them you're not worth this interaction. To me, I'm done with you. Like our kids experience, you know, to your point of like, how are our kids experiencing those moments? Like, they're either going to. We're going to get big or we're going to disengage. There's probably other reactions, but I'm thinking of those things when I'm thinking of, you know, how I'm going to show up in an interaction in which I'm feeling stressed or frustrated or, you know. [00:11:15] Speaker D: Just primed for a rupture if I pick it apart. I think it starts when our kids are doing something that we're not expecting or desiring or wanting. So it starts with an expectation. I expected my kids room to be clean or them to come immediately when I called. Or that's a lot of times something happens. And then to your point, Tana, where's the disconnection when that's something that I'm not expecting? My response can be kind of snippy, snipey, harsh. I might use a stern tone. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:11:52] Speaker D: Maybe it's called for, maybe it's not. You know, I'm not saying that a parent can't ever be stern or firm, but I think when I'm leading to disconnection, some disconnection is inevitable with correction because nobody likes to be corrected. But we can definitely add fuel to the fire when it's not necessary, when we're letting our own. Either you said it, Jesse, like exhaustion or. [00:12:17] Speaker D: You know, kind of that I'm past the point. So Maybe I'm juggling 10 things in the air in a given moment. And instead of when my kid does X, instead of taking three seconds to calm my tone or to think about how I want to respond, when I just react immediately. Lots of times for me, that's harsh. That's a harsh reaction. And it's kind of a get it together, why aren't you already doing what I expected you to do when reaction. So that's how it comes out for me. And so instead of maybe a correction is needed and maybe that still would have led to some disconnect. But I can make the disconnect. Like if it was going to be a crack, I can make it a Grand Canyon. By the way, that I come at my kid, I think. [00:13:06] Speaker C: What do you think, Tana? [00:13:09] Speaker A: I'm thinking about these moments of rupture where. [00:13:17] Speaker A: There'S an awful lot so very quickly happening in us. And it is, it's really, really hard in a split second instant to self assess and respond 100% of the time in a way that makes me feel like a good moment. I mean, sometimes I can, as we call it, practice the pause and think. To your point, Becca, regulate, take a deep breath and respond before I react. Like, we use those words very differently here at Empowered to connect react. Is that instinctual? And respond is more intentional. But I think maybe what I want to do is for those listening, I want to normalize that often that reaction is self protection when you really like strip it way down and think about it real hard. Right to your point, Becca? It's like maybe I'm really, really stressed and I just can't handle anything else. And my nervous system is fried and my sensory. I'm overwhelmed, I'm exhausted, exhausted. I'm tired. And like without me even knowing it, my body and brain are just in self protection mode. And literally asking me one more question, needing one more thing, needing one more drink before bed is like the straw that broke my nervous system's back. Right. My proverbial back. It is a normal thing to have a body and brain that is trying to preserve and protect. So if we could figure out how to like self assess and set the shame aside, I mean, that is the key to what we want to talk about in a few minutes, which is the repair side. But I think if we could normalize those micro moments of disconnection as just part of trying to figure out how to be in relationship with each other, it might give us sort of all kinds of. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Insight and creativity and wisdom to. To do the repair in a way that pulls us forward in relationship instead of sets us back. Like, shame doesn't do us any good here. We're not excusing bad behavior towards our kids. This there's a difference in saying something's understandable and it's acceptable. Like it is not acceptable to yell and scream and act bad towards your children. That is not what we are saying. But we are saying breaks in connection and ruptures in relationship and reactions and stress responses are normal things. [00:16:13] Speaker C: This is bringing to mind the way we talk about dysregulation. I mean, if you think about having a baby, which Becca does right now, by the way. So our little expert on our panel right now could sound in. Yes, I'M gonna guess that Becca doesn't yell at her baby most of the time for crying. [00:16:32] Speaker D: Like, no. Right? Yeah. [00:16:35] Speaker C: Like, infants get dysregulated, and their whole task in infancy is. [00:16:46] Speaker C: The act. And our whole task in their infancy as caregivers is that process of dysregulation to regulation. Dysregulation to regulation. Dysregulation to regulation. Like, that's a human experience. And something that we teach when we teach co regulation is that that's learned in infancy, in an ideal situation, that when I'm dysregulated, I can get help. Like, here's what regulation feels like again. Why am I talking about this? I think rupture is a little bit of an extension of that. Like, it is a normal human thing to become dysregul. I'm thinking about the days when maybe I'm picking my kids up from school and I'm just coming at them sideways, and they're. They know, like, oh, mom is just, like, critical today. Or, like, grumpy or mad. Like, there are days that I'm like that with them. Guess what? There's days when they're like that with me. And I don't love it. We don't love the experience of that. But when I really pull it apart and go all the way down, I'm like, that's just the experience of dysregulation to regulation. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:55] Speaker C: And we get to do that together as people, as each other's people with each other. So to normalize that rupture, it's like your whole live long life, you're gonna have dysregulation to regulation. Right. [00:18:12] Speaker A: And it's probably. I would guess Becca's not getting yelling at her baby for crying, but I am guessing the crying is probably dysregulating you, Becca. [00:18:22] Speaker D: A hundred percent. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Right? [00:18:23] Speaker C: Right. My memory of those infancy and toddler years is, like, just doing my very best to hang on to my last shred of regulation while that kiddo was dysregulated. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [00:18:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:37] Speaker A: So it's normal. It's normal. [00:18:40] Speaker D: Can I. Can I say one more piece of this? Like, maybe you're listening and you're like, I'm not a big yeller. I'm not a big snapper. So I also just want to think about rupture as kind of the. The space between, like, when we're not on the same page, we're on two different. [00:18:54] Speaker D: Isn't it such a good feeling to be known by somebody? Like, somebody knows you to the point of you know what? I brought you coffee today because I knew you were tired. Like when someone anticipates something for us that feels so good, in relationships, we want, even if we don't say it, for the people around us a lot of times to know us to the point of even being able to read our mind a little bit. So I think sometimes disconnection is the big Grand Canyon chasm. Sometimes it's this drift. And I think, you know, you guys are talking about teenagers. Teenage hood is a time when it's really hard to think about anyone's perspective other than your own that's developmentally appropriate. It's hard, but that's a developmentally appropriate part of adolescence. And so the experience of being a teen is they. My parent doesn't get me. So maybe it's not these big, big dramatic ruptures, but maybe the rupture is just they're saying something to you. You're responding in a way that feels fine to you, but they don't feel seen and there's just a drift happening. So I just wanted to mention that side of rupture before we move to repair that. Sometimes it's a drift. [00:20:04] Speaker C: I really love that, Becca, because it is sometimes a drift. And I think at any age, even with our adult friends and partners, that drift can exist. And I think about it the way that, you know, I was given that example of just maybe without even realizing it, I'm saying the thing about the dirty room before I'm even saying good morning or saying something connecting to my kid. And you can get in those roots, you can get in those just ruts, I guess, where you're just like defaulting to the critical thing, defaulting to the snippy thing, defaulting to the disengaged thing. And you find yourself in that drift. So, yeah, that's rupture too. [00:20:49] Speaker A: I'm thinking about sometimes the struggle of being a parent that is trying really hard to build and preserve connection. And I appreciate what you're bringing to the conversation because I think, you know, I think in your heart, you know, if it's not being reciprocated or you're struggling and you long for that connection and strong relationship and there's something breaking down, a rift happening. And so self protection can also be shutting down and pulling away. Right. It's not always the reaction in the moment. It could be the slow burn of shutting down and kind of going cold and self preservation might be that in the life of a parent. Right. I'm not going to be able to stay present in this relationship in this way, in a micro moment or in a season. So I really appreciate the idea of rupture can look so many different ways. [00:22:12] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think maybe those thoughts that go through your head. [00:22:18] Speaker C: Inevitably are. I'm missing them like we're missing each other. I don't get them. [00:22:27] Speaker C: I'm not seeing them or they're not seeing me. It's just that, you know, that there's disconnection. I appreciate that you're saying, like, you know. You know, I find myself thinking about my kids. I'm losing her. I'm losing her. She's like, something's missing. Yeah, Something's missing. We're pulling away. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And it could be them. It could be you. It's probably something going on between the two of you. You know, there's. It's not probably just one thing. [00:22:57] Speaker C: It's just one thing. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah, right. It's probably a number of things. So when we think about this sort of quote that I brought up at the beginning of the episode around, like, it's. The rupture isn't the most important thing. It's the repair that sort of matters most. Let's talk about that. Like, why. Why do we think that that repair matters the most? [00:23:26] Speaker C: Here is my oversimplified way of saying that. And then let's pull all of it apart. Ruptures, inevitable, like we're talking about. Let's normalize that. Let's maybe feel a little less shame for the ruptures we're experiencing from day to day in our relationships. You know what's not inevitable is repair. [00:23:45] Speaker A: Oh, I love that, Jesse. I love that. That's. [00:23:48] Speaker C: That's pushing against what your default would be. That's doing something intentional. That's not just the path of least resistance. So, yeah, the rupture's happening. That's normal. The extraordinary thing is gonna be if we step back towards someone that we're experiencing disconnection with. [00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's it. Right. That's the intention part. You're setting an intention to pursue repair where we might have defaulted into rupture. [00:24:20] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:22] Speaker D: The default is disconnection. I think in any relationship, if you're not putting in the work to come back together, the default is slowly, over time, we're going to drift. That's just the default. So I really. Man, that's really good, Jesse. That's a really good reminder that it is the path forward. And we hopefully, in our families and in the people that we care the most about, hopefully we would put in that work. I think that's why, you know, repair is the real work. Because, man, that's the relational goodness right there. Like, when you can experience the rupture that you're always going to experience and love each other enough, care about each other enough, put forth the effort enough to try to come back together, it's not easy to pursue repair. But, man, that's. That's. Oof. That's a really good reminder, Jesse. [00:25:13] Speaker C: I mean, in the Instagram post, I think we use the word willingness. And to have a willingness to repair a rupture when we know the rupture is going to happen, I mean, what all does that take? I'm not, like, oversimplifying that. It takes humility, which is giant. It takes skills. It takes the desire to pull towards something that's repelling you or that you might feel shame about. It takes the willingness to dig into your own stuff and own your stuff. None of that is small. Like, that is hard work for us. But to have a safe adult that's bigger, stronger, kinder, willing to do that in a parental relationship, like, we get to do that, guys. And that's going to set a pattern for our kids, an expectation of relationship for our kids that will serve them well for the rest of their lives. [00:26:12] Speaker A: When y' all think about repair and you think about those messages that it sends the kids, I don't know about y', all, but whenever I have a rupture, the internal dialogue of the messages I'm sending to my kids is pretty strong and loud, Right? You know, the things I didn't mean to make them feel or think, or the things I didn't mean to say. So let's talk about. [00:26:36] Speaker A: What is repair showing our kids, telling our kids, teaching our kids when we pursue it. [00:26:46] Speaker C: Ooh, help me remember this one, Tana. Michael Monroe, one of the founders of Empowered to Connect, says something like, it's never more important to be right than it is to relate rightly. [00:27:00] Speaker A: There it is. Yeah. [00:27:01] Speaker C: And I think that is one of the first things I think about is, like, I mean, we're dealing with kids. We're dealing with people with less life experience than us. I mean, you know, I have got a tween and a teen in my house. They think they know everything right now. And it can be infuriating to go to. Toward them in repair to. Towards someone that thinks they know everything and their perspective is the right way and to relate rightly with them, because sometimes I was the right one, you know, But I'VE got to put that aside. So I think one of the first things that it communicates to our kids is you matter more to me than what I think or you matter more to me than my perspective. You matter more to me than being right or winning this conversation. And you guys know I love winning. [00:27:54] Speaker D: The competitor, like she is willing to. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Quote, unquote, lose this one. [00:27:58] Speaker C: I really love to win conversations, you. [00:28:01] Speaker A: Know, just conversations or everything. Jesse? Everything. Everything. Sorry, go ahead, Becca. [00:28:08] Speaker D: No, I would just add, I think it creates a foundation that relationships don't end at the first sign of trouble. So we don't just count people out when things get tricky or tough. The relationship isn't over just because either you made a mistake or I made a mistake because it's a two way street. Could be either one making the mistake. The relationship continues, the connection continues. And I think that's a pretty important message. [00:28:35] Speaker C: Gosh, think about the felt safety of that relationship. The trust that's being built is that like we are stronger than any one of our mistakes. We're strong. Like we are safe to feel fail with each other and we can recover from that failure because our relationship is strong enough for that. [00:28:54] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. Let's turn a little bit and talk about what do you all think is sort of the recipe or sort of the pieces that we would say are part of healthy connected repair. Like what does that look like when we want to pursue that? Let's try to walk that out a little bit. What would you say to be mindful of, to be thinking about when you pursue a good healthy repair? [00:29:27] Speaker C: I mean, I think the first thing I'm going to have to do is own my stuff and calm down. So if there's been. I'm trying to think about this in terms of all the ways we've talked about rupture. So if there's a blow up, you know, then I'm going to need to calm down from that. I'm probably emotionally dysregulated. Maybe I need to go talk to Nick about it for a minute. Maybe I need to, you know, take a walk or whatever. [00:29:57] Speaker C: I'm going to need to think about my part. What part am I owning in that I'm going to need to think about my kiddo and where they might have been coming from and the bigger picture. You know, we talk about the behavior iceberg. What was underneath that conversation? How might I have escalated it? Or what's my part in the rupture? If it's a drift, then I'm thinking like. [00:30:23] Speaker C: What are the pieces along the way in which I've been losing her, you know, or losing him? Like where have we been missing each other. And I think a large part of that, the first thing I'm going to think about is what is the quality of my connection with this child. Like truly what. How have I been connecting or not connecting. And by connecting I mean like spending time seeing them. [00:30:50] Speaker C: Making an intention to take interest in them, to give them my warm eyes, to communicate verbally and non verbally that they matter to me. Am I doing that? And guys, it's normal. Like we're gonna, there are going to be times when we just don't even realize we're not doing that. And especially if we're experiencing a drift that just feeds on itself, that we're not wanting to pull close to that kiddo. We're not wanting to invest in connection with them because it doesn't feel good. They're there. It's not fun. [00:31:23] Speaker A: Two things are coming up for me, Jesse, I think I hear you saying, like we need to pull back and regulate. Like we need you that for ourselves. And then we need to do our very first empowered to connect. Connecting practice, which is be curious. And you gave us a whole sloth of things to start investigating. This is such a silly example, but one of our kiddos plays club volleyball and I just went to the parent meeting for the season to kick off and they were giving us all the expectations of the club and one of them is during a tournament. We as parents are not allowed to approach the coach with any frustration about playing time or you know, how many minutes our kid played or anything we're upset about. We have to operate and give a 24 hour, they call it a cool down period and then approach the coach outside the moment after the tournament weekend is over. And it's, I mean this is a silly example, but this is why. Because what they're hoping you'll do is go think about, calm down, regulate, see the big picture, look at the whole thing, get your wits back about you. They don't want a lot of parents reacting in the moment. Well, in this conversation we've maybe done the reaction and. Or there is a chasm that we're starting to notice sort of that drift that we've talked about. So we need to pull back and try to have thoughtful clear vision about the whole big picture before we sort of hone in and attempt repair because we might actually create more rupture. [00:33:08] Speaker C: You're saying thoughtful, clear vision and you know I love an illustration. It's making me think when you go to the optometrist and they put you in front of the big eye thing and they're like this or this. I mean, isn't that the experience of pulling back and being curious? It's like this or this. And which one's clearer? Which one allows you to see the situation and circumstance the clearest as you pull apart those things? [00:33:31] Speaker A: Yeah, so we're doing that reflection and. [00:33:33] Speaker D: As we're reflecting, I think sometimes we just. It's hard for us to see someone else's perspective too, even as adults who want to. So when you're thinking about repair, what's going to first come to your mind is how you would want someone to repair with you. And that's just true. No matter the relationship, if you've gotten into a rupture with your boss, your spouse, your kid, your first thing that's going to pop to your mind, which is, okay, that this is where it starts, is what would feel good to me. But I think if you can push yourself, if you've got three kids, there's not one way that you're repairing. If you've got one kid, there's not one way that you're repairing. If you've got six kids, Repair is about reconnecting with that relationship. And we say this almost every podcast, it's complex and nuanced, but it is. Because maybe for one kid, making a cup of hot chocolate, inviting them to come sit with you in the kitchen while you make dinner, maybe that's what repair looks like. Maybe for another kid, it's totally different. It needs to be a sit down, face to face, scripted. I want to apologize for this because this is how it, what happened. And I want you to know that I see that kiddo like I see, see you. And I don't want to act that way for another kid. So it's just so complicated. You are reflecting and tuning in to the kid in front of you and your relationship. And sometimes in different seasons, you're going to try, you're going to offer, you're going to offer, you're going to offer. And your kiddo may or may not respond the way that you want them to. So I do just want to kind of like when we're thinking about repair, there's that chasm. We want to reconnect with our kid. Let's offer it in a way that makes sense for that kid and our relationship with them. And let's remember that all we can do is offer so we can offer it, we can't force it. We can't make them be back okay with us. I think, yeah, that's just what's popping to mind. As I'm thinking, Jesse, about your really, really beautiful reminder to be curious and to be thoughtful is as we're doing that. Don't just think about, oh man, if someone did that to me, I would want them to say this and this and this and do this and this and this. That's fine to start there. Then think about what would my kid want? What might they need? What have I learned about them through our other ruptures and repairs that we've had? [00:35:58] Speaker C: I'm maybe going to think about how did they receive connection and love the best? You know, talking about their love language. You know, is it like making fresh baked cookies in the kitchen when the smell of it. I'm thinking about the conversations we've had about food on this podcast. And that good smell draws them out of that room that they'd slam the door and down into the kitchen and they're gonna know, mom made these cookies for me. [00:36:30] Speaker C: I'm thinking about my default mode right now because I have teenagers is to think about the way I do this with teenagers. And I'll talk about that in a second. But I'm thinking this can even be done with toddlers and preschoolers and elementary school age kids. Guys like a grown up willing to say, hey, that's not the way mommy meant to show up this morning. I'm really sorry. I don't like the way this conversation's going. Can I have a redo? You know, in your age appropriate ways to say like, I'm sorry. I. I'm not showing. I'm. I'm just thinking about. I think it was Jamie DeLuna said that phrase in one of our podcast episodes once that I didn't show up though. I'm not showing up the way I want to. And I really liked the way that she said that. I think it can be used with a lot of different ages. Oh, hey. Oh, that didn't come out of my mouth the way that I meant for it to sound. Can I try that again? And just modeling what we're asking our kids to do. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a giant deal if there's been a bigger rupture then coming. I mean, I'm thinking about how formative it was for me as a teenager when my parents would come to me and be like, I wasn't thinking about your point of view. I was Thinking about it this way, because XYZ and here are my reasons, and allowing me to negotiate with them, allowing them, allowing me, my parents, allowing me to say how it felt to hear that, that's going to take a lot of humility, right? Because when I do that with my girls, what's that? What that's going to mean is they're not going to say it perfectly. They're going to say, mom, you always do this, or mom, it's always like this, or you never. And what I'm going to want to do is come right back and spar with them about that. But to be able to have, to be able to have regulated myself first, to come in with humility and to hear what they're really saying, they're not saying I always do this. They're saying when I did it this one time, it felt like this. You know, you can, you can filter what they're trying to say out of that. And again, relating rightly, not having to be right, not having to clarify every single point that, that over exaggeration is making. But to be able to, to go all the way through with that arrow and find the heart of the conversation and to repair that, that's, I think, the task. When we're talking to older kids, particularly. [00:39:03] Speaker A: When we think about. [00:39:06] Speaker A: How we approach repair. [00:39:09] Speaker A: I appreciate the threads that we're pulling on because I'm hearing things like humility. [00:39:17] Speaker A: Person first language, me, hey, that I, I didn't do that the way I hoped to. Can I have another chance? I hear attunement and I hear us saying, meet that child's needs the way that child needs that need to be met. Lower your expectations on what you expect to happen in return. Like apologize for some of us, even as adults, is so hard. If we model and show our children, our teenagers and our young adults that this relationship operates this way, and I'm modeling it. [00:40:01] Speaker A: I can promise you over time you will see growth, maybe not perfection, maybe it still isn't happening for you by them the way you want it to. But if we as the parent and caregiver pursue it, there is so much goodness that can happen in the repair. There are so many messages. Signals, growth, scaffolding, reconnection, strengthening trust, resilience skills. Like, there is so much good stuff, stuff happening in the repair that if we can be like, I would say, don't let our shame or desire to be perfect or right. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Actually rob us from the gift of repair. Repair is a, is a gift, an intentional gift. Rupture, inevitable. What Are Yalls closing thoughts? [00:41:04] Speaker C: I think I want to just encourage all of us to think of it this way. If you had done it right the first time, what would your child have taken away from that? I think it wouldn't have stood out. It would have been the norm. It would have not been as formative. It's actually the willingness to come back and repair that becomes the thing they remember versus the perfect parent. And I think that willingness and the messages that all that good stuff like Tana talked about that happens in the repair, that's actually the stuff they're going to remember. That's the stuff that makes up their belief system about how they're worthy of connection. They're worthy of somebody listening to them, somebody telling them they matter through their actions and words. And so it's the good stuff that's the part that really matters. [00:42:07] Speaker A: I was talking to someone that's a friend of mine that's in their late 50s, and they were talking about some of their struggles that they had in relationship to their aging and unwell parent. And they were working through what they should do at this stage in that relationship to pursue any repair that might be needed before the parent passes away. And when we were talking and working through that, I asked the question, can you remember a time when your parent ever repaired or apologized for you. [00:42:46] Speaker A: And they could not remember a single time ever? And my question then was, what patterns of behavior do you have with your parent where repair is something y' all even know how to do together? And why are you putting so much pressure on yourself as this older adult to figure it out this late in the game? There's no. There is no repair dance between the two of them. And now as the adult child, they feel responsible to repair with their aging parents, but the parent never did it with them. And my attempt was, how much do you need to release of responsibility to try to parent your parent at this point on how to repair? Well, when they may not know how to do it, they've literally never done it with you. My point in that is we are the ones most of you probably listening to this episode are the parent that at least has children you can model repair with. And I want my adult children to want to repair with me when things fracture when I'm older. And I have to be willing to pursue repair and build that pattern of engagement between the two of us so that I know and I need practice. It is okay to have to practice. It's okay if you didn't have this happen to you and it is so clunky when you try to do it now. Like, it might feel awkward, you might miss it, you might try it, it might go sideways. That repair might feel so uncomfortable and unnatural to you, but I want you to go after it and push through the clunky. [00:44:31] Speaker C: I love that. I love the permission you've just given us to try something that we may not be good at or that we may worry that we're going to fail at. I'm thinking of really. We have three choices, guys. We cannot mess up. Which, by the way, is never going to happen for any single one of us. But okay, let's say. Let's say one of us lucky winners out here is never going to mess up in their parenthood. Well, guess what? You're telling your child. [00:45:02] Speaker C: This is unattainable. Like they're going to walk through life messing up and they're just going to feel like there's no way to reach your standard because they're going to mess up. So we're not setting any kind of path forward or pattern for them. The second choice is we can pretend we don't mess up. We can be unwilling to repair. We can pretend like we are perfect. And if we do that, our kids know better. What we communicate to them is that we're hypocrites, we're hypocritical, and it makes us unapproachable. There is then a solidified disconnection because we're having to pretend something is true that is not true. The third way forward is to mess up and repair. And that's actually going to create the trust, a relationship that's authentic. We're showing our kids our real selves. They're able to show us their real selves. And we're giving them a path forward, something that they can replicate and imitate and grow from. To know that it's okay to mess up. And it's. It's what's necessary and what's what matters. Going back to our social media post is the way we deal with things when we do mess up. I think that's so valuable to our kids. [00:46:21] Speaker D: As I think about kind of my closing thought. We use this quote from Dr. Cross a lot. That's it's better to err and repair than never to err. And that's what you're saying, Jesse. Like relationships where there's a pattern of we're human, we mess up. And then as the adult, I'm modeling the pursuit of connection, the pursuit of repair. That's the good stuff. That's how you raise a kiddo who can grow up to navigate conflict, to navigate relationships that aren't perfect, because none are. So I just think repair gives us a beautiful pathway forward, and everything we do as our kids are growing up sets a foundation for their adult relationships. And don't we all want to be adults who can navigate conflict and complexity? [00:47:12] Speaker A: And. [00:47:13] Speaker D: Oh, I didn't mean to say that that way. So I just think it's a. It's a great way forward. Thank you guys so much for this conversation. I know it was a great reminder for me. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Agreed. Thank y' all for the that joined us today. We appreciate y' all listeners and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. [00:47:36] Speaker B: We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, the best way to support us going forward is to subscribe. We'd love to hear from you, leave a review, drop us a comment, or. [00:47:45] Speaker D: Email us to let us know what. [00:47:46] Speaker B: You hope to hear in future episodes. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empower to Connect podcast. Until then, we're holding on to hope with you.