[E223] Sensory Processing 101

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: To the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. Today we're going to talk about some behaviors that we see that really make us scratch our heads. But when we realize what is happening behind the scenes inside our bodies, it makes a whole lot more sense. So I'm here today with Becca and Tana and we want to unpack what is sensory processing? When we talk about the senses that we experience in our bodies, what is included and how does our body process those on a continuum in order to then regulate and be able to go throughout our day? And what happens when we've got issues in those systems? What does it look like and how can we support those things? We're as a disclaimer, talking as parents and not as occupational therapists. So we have some OT friends shout out to Misty Hanks, who has given us a lot of guidance, and some of our other OT buddies, and some of you may be listening right now. We love you guys. We are going to do our very best to kind of describe this in layman's terms and would encourage you to find your favorite OT practice if you'd like to go deeper into any of these topics. So, first of all, guys, what are. What is sensory processing? What are we talking about when we talk about that? [00:01:38] Speaker C: All right, so our kind of dictionary definition to kick us off of sensory processing is the process by which the brain recognizes, organizes, and responds to stimuli from our environment and from within our own body. So essentially, all the time, your brain is processing information inputs across all different kinds of things. You're hearing, you're feeling, you're tasting, you're touching. All that's happening simultaneously. The brain is kind of really crazy and cool how it works so seamlessly. But sensory processing is happening across eight sensory systems all the time throughout the day. [00:02:16] Speaker B: Okay, so what are the eight systems? We know the first five, right? Everybody that's listening, let's list them together. Okay. This will be fun because we're all going to list them out of order, right? Okay, here we go. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Taste. Sight. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Sight. [00:02:32] Speaker C: I was waiting to see if I could read your lips. [00:02:34] Speaker B: I feel like I'm on the snl. [00:02:37] Speaker A: You were looking at you. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Taste, sight, touch, hearing. [00:02:42] Speaker A: That's like sound. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Okay. I always can list four, and then. [00:02:46] Speaker A: I forget the full factory or smell. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Sense of smell. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Okay. A touch. Do we say touch? What have we said so far? [00:02:52] Speaker C: Taste. All of them. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Touch. Smell. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Hearing. [00:02:56] Speaker A: Sight. [00:02:57] Speaker C: Yep. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Okay, so those, we learned those in kindergarten or something. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Or we learned them. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:02] Speaker B: There are actually three more. So let's talk about those guys. Tana, why don't you kick us off with that? [00:03:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I. I appreciated you saying, like, there's some behaviors and some things that cause us to scratch our heads. So when we think about these other three, for me, personally, when I first heard about them, I was like, hold up. What? There's something more going on than smelling something. It was a huge insight and light bulb. So I'll just start with one of them, which is vestibular. And so our vestibular sense is kind of think about spatial awareness. So it's the part of us that might make you feel a little bit dizzy. So it's got to do with movement and balance. Um, when we think about it, it's kind of like, where is my head in position to the earth and to gravity? So this. You might feel your vestibular sense alerted if you're swinging or on a roller coaster or hang your head upside down or get a little bit dizzy or play that dizzy game where you're spinning, spinning, spinning, and then you need to walk in a straight line. So that's your vestibular sense. It's information taken in through your inner ear. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Thank you. Becca, why don't you tell us about our next one? [00:04:23] Speaker C: I'll go with proprioceptive. So proprioceptive has to do with where your body parts are in relation to the rest of your body and the environment. So proprioceptive is kind of the sense of pressure, deep pressure. It's the input on your joints. I'll tell you when I realized proprioceptive was a thing. When was after I had ACL surgery, and it's like my leg forgot how to take a step up. And my occupational therapist at the time, who was. Or my physical therapist who was working with me, talked to me about the pressure that you feel. Like when you're walking up a step, your feet are automatically. They just kind of do it, usually seamlessly. But she was saying your proprioceptive senses are off post surgery. So it has to do with when you're sitting in a chair. How does it feel on your body if you're standing at the sink right now doing the dishes, listening to this, how do your. Your feet feel in relation to the ground? So it's kind of that pressure sense. [00:05:20] Speaker B: That's good. The last of the three that we don't talk very often is called the interoceptive sense, and that is our body's internal cues that either tell Us something about our internal state or our emotions, even physiological or emotional. So some examples of this would be, how soon before you need to go to the bathroom does your body tell you you need to go to the bathroom? You might have kiddos who don't know they need to go until they're about to wet their pants. Or you might have a kiddo who can go outside in the winter and doesn't realize they need a coat because that interoceptive sense needs a little bit more input. There's somebody in my family that loves spicy food and well, that that's going to be your sense of taste. But they crave it, crave it, crave it until it's too hot. Like, nope, I'm still talking about sense of taste. This person is a needs extra input and across different senses. So you hear me, you hear me. Even real time filtering like, oh wait, that's not interoceptive. But an example of interoceptive would be if you're feeling anxious and where do you feel that in your body? Your interoceptive sense is going to tell you when your heart is racing, that you feel anxious, or when your shoulders are tight, that you feel nervous. [00:06:50] Speaker A: Or. [00:06:52] Speaker B: In our case, there was somebody in my family that had stomach aches every single day. And we actually took the person to the doctor, got a prescription for acid reflux. And then the next week we were driving to school and the person said, oh man, here goes my stomach again. I feel this way every day. We were turning onto the road that school is on and I was like, might it be nervousness and anxiety that you're feeling in your tummy and not an actual physiological tummy problem? So your interoceptive sense is going to tell you, oh, that feels nervous. But a lot of our kids aren't making that connection or they need a lot of extra input, um, in order to know they feel that way. [00:07:39] Speaker A: I think this is why it's important. I mean, basically what you just said, I mean all of it, all the senses, this is why it's important. But when, when we think about like, why do we talk about this so much here at Empowered to Connect? It's because there is such a deep, deep, deep connection between our internal body state and our emotions and our ability to sort of regulate those emotions. So you even said like, sometimes behavior can be confounding and confusing until we have a little bit more insight into what could potentially be going on. And so understanding that sort of brain, body, emotional connection can give us like a roadmap and insight into how to be supportive. Both always. First to ourselves. Right. And then to our. To our kiddos. I love what you said, Jesse, especially the interoception, because that actually is a sense we were talking about more recently, even in the world, I think, of sort of understanding sensory processing. We had our first five, and then we had proprioceptive and vestibular. And then really just within the last couple of years, at least from my experience, I'm sort of understanding this language around interoceptive. And then I even understood more because. But we've always done this. We're like, what do you say when you're nervous? You have butterflies in your stomach? We understand that we're internalizing our anxiety or. So it's like, how do I. How is my physiological and emotional state being experienced by my body? A sense of hunger, to your point, needing to go to the restroom. Anxiety, stress. You know, maybe you've even had your kiddos or maybe your counselor therapist has had your kid take a picture of a body on a piece of paper and, like, color where they feel an emotion. The ability to connect those two things has so much to do with interception. And we want so badly to be regulated and for the people in our life to be regulated. And man, oh, man, it's so connected to how we are taking in what you said, Becca, the information, and then how are we making sense of it? How are we registering it? And then maybe how are we responding to it, either to pull away or to push towards. So it's a very, very complex reality. [00:10:05] Speaker B: You guys hear me talk about even seeking more of a sense, or there's also the. The desire to push away from that sense, and you're getting too much input. And we'll talk about that in a second. But first, Becca, I would love if you would kind of describe. We often talk about the experience of just driving in the rain. All of the things that are needing to happen within our sensory system in order to stay regulated and to even process what is happening. So will you describe that or walk us through that scenario a little bit? I know I haven't. I've kind of put you on the spot. [00:10:48] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. If you, like, picture yourself and you're in your car, your kid is in the backseat, or multiple kids, let's say there's three of them back there. It's raining really hard. What is happening is your brain is filtering tons of information. You've got blurry lines on the road. If you're like me and have an astigmatism in your Eyes, because the water is making the lights look funny. And then you've got the sound of the rain. Maybe there's thunder, and you might be even feeling some anxiety. So you're feeling your car maybe start to shake and hydroplane, and you're seeing the lights be kind of blurry, and you're hearing your kids arguing over something in the backseat. So while this is happening, your brain is trying to seamlessly make sense of all those inputs at the same time. And some of those inputs, your brain is taking a in, and it is staying regulated. It is seeing the lines, but it knows what it's looking at. It's making sense of that. You're not getting overwhelmed or you're not shutting down. You're kind of just staying regulated. But maybe while all this is happening, you've got another sense and you're feeling like, okay, the noise in the back seat is too much. I don't know if anyone else does this, but if I'm ever driving in that kind of situation, I will turn off the radio and I will turn off the air conditioning because I feel like I can see better. [00:12:06] Speaker A: I was just literally about to say that how many of us are. Turned the music down to drive better. And the sound has absolutely nothing to. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Do with driving the car, actually. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Just too much. [00:12:15] Speaker C: It's just too much. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:17] Speaker C: So your brain is like, okay, the sense of sound right now. And if we're being honest as parents, it might be the moment where I'm snapping, be quiet. I'm trying to drive. Right. Because the sound is. Is overwhelming. It's overstimulating. So I'm hypersensitive. Oh, my goodness. That's too much. Make it stop to the sound. But then at the same time, it could be. If we look, if we think about this as kind of like a wave on a chart. If you're regulated, that wave is staying right between the lines. You're good to go. If you're hypersensitive, it's like a spike. Think about a spike on the chart. If you're hyposensitive, something's not registering. So maybe while all this is happening, I don't feel the car start to kind of hydroplane and shift because it's not registering with me. There's too many sensations happening all at the same time. So it's a really complicated and beautiful thing, the way that our body and brain and senses all work together. We can kind of break those apart. I know I flew through them, but that's one example of, okay, as we talk about these broken down. Like we're going to think about maybe one sense. If we're thinking about our sense of hearing, for example, we can talk about that in terms of regulated, hypersensitive, hypersensitive. But I want you to keep in mind, as you're listening, really, in real life, all the things are coming at you at the same time. [00:13:41] Speaker B: And I wanted our listeners to hear that example because most of the time, you're doing okay with it. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:47] Speaker B: You're doing those things without even thinking you're turning down that radio. Or maybe you don't even have to turn the radio down. Maybe your hear, your sense of hearing is filtering out what you don't need to listen to, and it's cueing into what you do need to listen to. Same with your sense of sight, same with your proprioceptive sense. This is the way that our sensory system is working all the time. But then we all exist on that continuum like Becca was talking about. So let's kind of break that down a little bit. Tana, tell us a little bit about a regulated system. What does it mean, actually, when we say regulated? [00:14:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So just to put a fine point on it, we're talking about that sensory processing continuum. So I appreciated what Becca sort of communicated. We have a graphic that explains this, like a wavy line. And so think about it. Like, you've got two parallel lines that are dotted, and you've got a sound wave is kind of the visual you can have going in between the two wavy lines. So when things are regulated, when your sensory system is regulated, then it's maintaining balance with all of the input that's there. And that wavy line is chilling up and down in the middle of those two dotted lines. So you're just hanging out. Your body and brain is processing this. Like, hey, it's okay. This is fine. I've got this. I can handle this moment. All is well. Right? So that is probably how many of us are throughout the majority of our day. And it is not something to your point, Jesse, that you're even bringing to the forefront of your cognition. It's just. You're just doing it. You're just fine. You're able to regulate and stay in a regulated state with this. I'm good. [00:15:37] Speaker B: You don't have to tell your lungs to breathe in and out. You don't have to tell your heart to be. You don't have to tell your sensory system to sense. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And you don't have to try to, like, take deep breath to regulate your heart. Or you're not hungry. Like your body isn't sending you alerts internally that something's going on. You aren't fidgety. You're. You're just sitting in a place of regulation. Now, when that goes awry, something is. Is happening there. [00:16:03] Speaker C: Regulated is like, I don't feel too hot or too cold, so I'm not thinking about the temperature because I'm just existing. I'm just here. [00:16:11] Speaker A: That's right. [00:16:12] Speaker C: That's kind of what I think of when I think about regulated is I don't have to think about it because it's not too loud or too quiet. It's not too hot or too cold. I'm good. I'm good right here. And then it can go sideways. [00:16:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So that is when the sensory system is hyposensitive. What Becca said is when that there's an input and it becomes understimulated, which is so interesting because I think probably typically we think about it like overstimulated. But I think it's really important for us to not miss this one because I actually think this is sometimes the behavior that's confusing to us. So what. What that is what's happening there, is it. It's getting a sense of this is not enough. And I don't quite get that. So this could actually show up behaviorally like a sensory seeker. So this could be a kiddo. Just to think about some of those senses that we talked about. Let's talk about vestibular. So a kiddo that is hyposensitive in a vestibular sense could be the one that wants to swing a lot high and a lot on the swing, because the vestibular sense that is normal, quote, unquote, to somebody is not enough. And they want more and more and more of it. They could hang their head upside down off of a. A couch. They could be doing flips and somersaults because they're seeking to get to a regulated state because they are not processing it as enough. So they're seeking more. Jesse, you talked about maybe your kiddo that likes spicy food. Yes. Right. You can eat it and maybe eat more than you would think is, quote, unquote, normal. Because the spice is being registered as. That's not quite enough. I don't have enough of that yet. I would like some more of that. The kiddo that cannot sense that it's time to go to the bathroom, that is a kiddo with a hyposensitivity internally that is not sensing yet that their bladder is Full until it's a little too late. So in all of the different types of this, this could be somebody that doesn't sense light. Maybe they want more visual input. They could be highly visual. So every one of our sensory systems could at times be hyposensitive, or we could generally run in a hyposensitive. So on our line, little dotted lines, that wave is going to be dipping low. It might be regulated sometimes, but it's going to go low on the dotted lines underneath. And you need to give more input to get back to a regulated state. [00:18:45] Speaker B: I'm thinking about, I was with a group of women last week and on a trip, and I just got back from the trip, and one of the women said, that is the loudest group of people I have ever been with. And she was like, and I'm loud. But that group of people was really loud. And it was making me think about, we all know loud talkers, right? Like, yes, that is a sensory thing, right. It's probably somebody that's hyposensitive. I mean, there's probably social things going on there too. But I'm thinking about even a loud talker in my family when, when she was young being told, oh, your voice is so loud. Why is your volume so loud? And she said, it just feels good in my mouth, mouth. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Right. Like this loud noises is as much as I need. Right, right. [00:19:36] Speaker B: So the hyposensitive, in order to get to feeling just right, for it to feel good, they need extra of that. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Right. So that would be what we might typically call a sensory seeker in that area. Then you have the hypersensitive, which is the system that experiences input and becomes overstimulated. So their sensory system is saying things to them like, this is too much and make it stop. So this is the registering of things that might be, quote, unquote, normal to somebody as too much for this kiddo or person. A couple things that come to mind for me would be if. If there's a kiddo that's walking down the hall at school and gets accidentally bumped into, you know, maybe a kid hits him on the shoulder and the kiddo pops off like, why'd you hit me? And it was just a very typical accidental bump, but that it's registering and their proprioceptive senses, that's the muscle and joint input as that they got hit, that they got bumped, then they are potentially hypersensitive to that physical input. And their brain thought they registered as it being tougher and harder than it was. So maybe Somebody that is averse to certain textures or averse to certain taste could be hypersensitive to the feeling of that in their mouth. Right? So if they're avoiding certain kinds of foods or certain kinds of smells, if they're avoiding things like swinging and I mean, I tell you what, the older I have gotten, I've gotten more hypersensitive. I can't do roller coasters and roller skating and swing like I could. My system is more sensitive as I've gotten older. So on our graph, this is the line going way up above those dotted lines. It's over registering and you're wanting to sort of pull away from the input. This might. To keep our example going. This might be the kiddo that feels like they have to go to the bathroom all the time. Right. Their bladder gets a little full and they've got to go right now when they just went a few minutes ago, if we want to use that example. So there's all the different sensory systems can, in different ways, experience, quote, unquote, a normal amount of input as it being too much, make it stop. So these might be kids that are pulling away from environments that maybe feel overly chaotic to them, but everybody else seems to be handling it just fine. You know, and those are my air quotes. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Even when you think about eating and food, that can be a sense of taste, but it could also be interoceptive in the sense that maybe you have a kiddo who is hyposensitive that needs 3 servings before they feel full, when they were full after the first serving, but their body didn't tell them they were full until they were too full. You also, on the flip side, might have a kiddo feeling too full and they haven't even finished their plate of food. And they're just really sensitive to that feeling of feeling full. [00:22:37] Speaker A: It does. [00:22:38] Speaker B: It goes both ways. And guess what? It's normally happening a lot of ways among different people in your family. [00:22:46] Speaker A: Right. And you're not. You're not just hypersensitive to everything and hyposensitive to everything. You can be hypo to some things and hyper to others. So this is the beauty of the complexity of what it means to be human. [00:22:58] Speaker B: That's right. Let's talk a little. Well, I want to talk about difficulty discriminating. Often. We'll kind of, you know, we'll talk about the extremes, but there's also an area called difficulty discriminating, and that would be when you have kind of just difficulty picking it out. It is less of A hyposensitivity and a harder time just understanding where the sense is coming from. They're all kind of blending together. My example would be I have difficulty discriminating auditorily when I'm in a echoey room or in a restaurant with lots of people talking. If I'm sitting across the table from you in a restaurant and you're talking to me and it's very loud and lots of people are talking, I can't tell which one is your voice and which one is the voice at the tables next to me. So I really rely upon my sense of sight to, like, watch the mouth of the person talking so I can match the sound of that voice with what I'm seeing. But if. If we're in the dark or something else is happening, I have a very hard time being able to pick that. [00:24:10] Speaker A: Out in our little charts to keep going back to that. For the visual people out there, there's just question all over that road. Like, in between those two. Those two parallel dotted lines, there's just a whole bunch of question marks. And it. The question is, what. What even is that? And what do I do with that input? What? What? You know, it's. It's very much a huh? Kind of mentality. And I think, to your point, Jesse, and I appreciate that example, It. It's so confusing, I think, for the person experiencing it, and then definitely for those that are, you know, wanting to offer some support. [00:24:43] Speaker C: Well, I think that's what makes this conversation important and complicated, is we. I think most of us generally go throughout life kind of assuming that we're all experiencing the same thing. And, I mean, there's silly examples. Right. The argument over the thermostat tells us very clearly we are not feeling 72 degrees the same way. Because I'm freezing and you're burning up. [00:25:07] Speaker A: Yep. [00:25:08] Speaker C: Or the. The funny argument that happened in our office not about do we want the big fluorescent lights on or off. Some of us felt like, whoa, that's too much. And some of us felt like, that is not enough. I need more light in this place to feel regulated, y'. All. [00:25:23] Speaker B: It's just weird to walk into a dark room for a staff meeting. [00:25:27] Speaker C: Or it's weird to walk in and feel like you need to put sunglasses on to shield your eyes. [00:25:33] Speaker A: I wonder which way y' all can. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Tell which teams were on. [00:25:36] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:36] Speaker C: We did a funny, like, tally mark on the whiteboard of, like, our lights on, lights off. And we, like, had a little moment about it. But those are times when we are able to acknowledge, hey, we're experiencing the world around us, the environment around us a little differently. But a lot of times, and I would say, especially when I think about adult child relationships, we spend a lot of energy being frustrated when a kid is experiencing something very differently from how we are. And a lot of times I'll just raise my hand and say, I feel really judgmental, like, they did not hit you. Your example in the hallway, Tana, they did not bump into you that hard. It is not that cold out outside. It is not that loud in here. You should be fine is kind of the message that I find myself communicating, because I'm fine. And I think understanding this whole idea of sensory systems and sensory modulation and all of the things we're talking about is really just acknowledging we're experiencing the world around us a little differently based on our own sensory processing. [00:26:39] Speaker A: And we're not doing that by choice. [00:26:41] Speaker C: It's not on purpose. [00:26:42] Speaker A: Our brain is doing and taking in and filtering or not. Or experiencing it completely involuntarily. [00:26:50] Speaker C: Yes, automatically, 100% instantaneously. And there's lots of things we could talk about. I don't know how much we want to get into it, but there's lots of things that can affect a developing child's sensory processing system. So, I mean, I'm in the thick of it right now. You have heard me talk on the podcast a couple times about my sweet baby girl who spent a lot of time in the nicu. And so the NICU is not the same as a womb. I mean, spoiler alert. Being in a box, it's called an isolette. I know the real terms, but being in a box, they. I didn't even know. They try to keep it humid and warm and they try to mimic the womb. They put darkening covers over it most of the day to try to mimic the womb. But that my little baby girl was experiencing pokes and prods and sounds and noises and it, it 100,000 million percent impacted the way that she experiences the world around her. There's lots of ways I could highlight, but the one that I'll say is kind of funny. You were talking about traveling with a group and people said, they're so loud. I love my in laws. They're wonderful people. They're very loud. Okay, McKay's listening. You know who you are. They laugh loud, they talk loud, they interact loud. The music is loud. It's a loud environment. And our sweet baby girl jumps. And so my sweet mother in law has been moderating herself. She's been going, oh, I need to be quieter around this baby girl because she's seeing a physical response to the same way that sweet grandma has interacted with every other grandchild, the same excitement and joy. It's not, you know, nobody's trying to scare our baby, but it's, hey, sweet girl. And she jumps because it was too loud for her. So that's just one example. But sensory processing can be impacted by our early experiences. It can be impacted by. By kind of our temperament. It can be impacted by lots of different things that many of you guys experience. Maybe ADHD or autism or. Obviously, we talk a lot on this podcast about trauma and stress. I just want to say that. To say our sensory system is very much under construction in those early days. And so what we experience greatly impacts kind of how our body and brain learns to process information. [00:29:09] Speaker A: I'm thinking about. Thank you for sharing that example. I was thinking about even deprivation and how deprivation can have the same sort of impact as over stimulation in those early developing years, because our brain's literally wiring around our experiences. And you just said that. So if we think about sensory processing and continuum as being a brain function, our brain's wiring around experience. And so. So to sort of pretend this isn't true or to minimize the reality of this could be incredibly detrimental to providing the supports that our kids and us personally need. And just figuring out, well, what do we do now? How do we move with this sort of new insight and information? What does this mean? If you pretend it isn't true, then you're sort of left, I think, perplexed and confused quite more than maybe any of us realize. [00:30:06] Speaker B: You also, I mean, let's just acknowledge, because it's so unique, two kids could be in the nicu or two kids could experience pokes and prods, and one of them is extremely hypersensitive to that sense of touch and proprioceptive input, and the other one might actually be hyposensitive because there's no doubt about it. Yeah, they learned to have a higher tolerance for that because it was painful or because it was overstimulating. So there's no given in any way that a single body is going to process. And we have to acknowledge each unique individual has their own sensory profile. So regardless of what we've experienced in life, Becca has her own sensory profile. So do I. So does Tana. So do you, listener. And you're probably already thinking about the people that you know in your life that have their own unique sensory profile in the same Way that Tana was saying, you know, we are not hypersensitive all across the board. We have these different sensitivities. We might even have difficulties in certain areas. And so let's talk a little bit about what some of those sensitivities or even more, let's talk about what difficulties might look like in each of these senses. [00:31:28] Speaker A: I think we could, I mean, if we want to start with some of the ones maybe that are our first five right from kindergarten, those tend to be easier to put our finger on. So if we want to just think specifically, we've talked a little bit about taste. So you could have hyper or hypo. You could have a kiddo that's averse to taste and textures. And I think taste and smell go really hand in hand. And you could have one that is really sensory seeking. So that could look like sitting at the dinner table and they're going to yuck your yum. Ooh, that smells gross. That looks gross. That tastes taste gross. Right. Or they could maybe even be overeating and in order to satiate some sort of a need. So I personally have seen this particular potential dysregulation in the sensory system impact parent child relationships more than you would imagine, because we're so centered around food and connection and time at the table and even like, being willing to eat, quote, unquote. This is very, like, typical family stereotype, but, like, be willing to eat what mom made. And what if that particular thing that mom made is, like, absolutely disrespectful of that child's entire physiological need? Then why in the world is that what we're picking our battle on? So attachment relationships, I think, can break down pretty significantly around taste and smell as it relates to your family culture of food and eating. So I would be very, very thoughtful about attributing motive when potentially there's an underlying need there for aversion or satiation from a sensory and smell. [00:33:19] Speaker B: I mean, you said that, Tana. I think attachment relationships can be impacted by the meaning that we ascribe to. [00:33:26] Speaker A: Any of them or any battle that. [00:33:28] Speaker B: We want to pick. I mean, I'm thinking about auditory. If you're in a loud family and you're. And you have a child withdrawing a lot, that might be communicating something to the family that is not actually being intended to communicate, maybe. You know what I mean? Like, I think we can. We all have battles. We're going to pick about something without realizing it's actually about something else. [00:33:53] Speaker A: So that one in particular brings back a memory of one of our older kiddos that got really, really overwhelmed when there was loud noise and chaos and talking. And I think they had a hard time discriminating sort of, what do I need to take in and leave behind? And so we set up a word like just say, hey, hey, can I take a break? I'm feeling overwhelmed. And I needed nothing more than that. You know, it was just seeking that ability to feel safe and have voice and autonomy to modulate. What do they need to do to go get their needs met and to pull away is to take care of a need, you know, and that is a completely different way of ascribing meaning to what's happening in that. I appreciate that perspective. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Also, let's acknowledge this. You, parent have sensory needs too. And when you are trying to support sensory needs of your kids, when you also have sensory needs, that can get really difficult. So if you have an aversion to loud sounds and you have a loud child and it feels good to her to talk loud. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Then how are you going to balance that? You know, maybe that means the parent is wearing earplugs while they're in the car with that child. Or maybe it means, you know, I. I used to dread dropping off children at like Sunday school or like little classes. You'd go and drop off because those hallways are so overstimulating to me for lots of different reasons. I would put earbuds in my ears and play classical music just because it helped me to feel calm. As I was navigating the hallways, I could still smile and say hello to people and I would even have conversations, but I just felt so much more serene. I mean, bringing awareness to this area. Then have to be asking ourselves, okay, if there are competing needs. Sometimes those competing needs are with me and the child and how, how am I going to balance that? Because we do have a responsibility to support our children. [00:35:52] Speaker A: Yeah. A few more things that come to mind are eye contact and, you know, sort of a visual. Sometimes it can be seen as disrespectful to not look somebody in the eye. So you just asked about the difficulties and how it can break down relationship. That's one. If they have a hard time holding eye contact or looking at you and they're sort of of, you know, wanting to minimize visual input because it's overwhelming to them or feels intense, that can be misconstrued. Another one could be either a kiddo that's seeking a lot of tactile input and. Or avoiding it. Maybe they don't want that hug or that back scratch. Or they need so much that they're all up in your face and that is offensive to you. It's too much to you. [00:36:37] Speaker B: And what if Auntie Karen always gets a hug? Right. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Or Auntie Karen wants to give the kid a big, wet, nasty kiss on their cheek and the kid's freaking out and it's. Red is disrespectful again, to the family culture. So, so much of this is like autonomy of self as it interacts with expected family culture and relational dance. [00:36:57] Speaker B: Also, think about what we ascribe to willful behavior. That kid that won't put their shoes on. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:04] Speaker B: And sometimes it's because they don't like the way the shoes feel on their feet. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Yep. [00:37:09] Speaker B: And they don't like the seams in the socks or they don't like the seam, the tag in their shirt. That's all tactile sense. But we're just seeing it as like, they're being stubborn and they might get dressed for school. [00:37:22] Speaker C: Yeah. You have red shoes and blue shoes. It doesn't matter that we can't find the red ones. Move on. Because again, it's not about the color. Like, that's what I think that you're highlighting is. It's it. We've been saying a lot around the office lately. Kind of a phrase that's going around. It's not that deep. And I would say in this podcast, sometimes it is that deep. Like. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:39] Speaker C: Sometimes it's that deep. Sometimes it's about a sense or a feeling. I can't help but just have so many school examples just flooding my mind right now. School uniforms and the pants aren't comfortable. And school assemblies and it's too loud. And school lunch. And this is what we have. And you get what you get and you don't throw a fit. And so you're saying, Tana, expectations. I think what can happen is there are expectations of us at home, at school. You mentioned Sunday school at church. And then what happens when those expectations are bumping up against some of these sensory difficulties? What can we do to support. What can we do to help the kiddo that has to go to school in the uniform? What is a reasonable accommodation? What is some give and take that we can have? How can we negotiate through it? [00:38:31] Speaker B: Let's talk about it. How can we support sensory difficulties? [00:38:37] Speaker A: I think about, you know, no surprise here, some proactive and some responsive supports. [00:38:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:43] Speaker A: We can do sort of before, during, and after. Right. So that's very much us. Let's think about how we can minimize and meet some needs beforehand. Let's think about how we can support in the moment and then let's talk about it after so we can be prepared for next time. It. It's really about getting to know the kiddo. Depending on their age and stage and development, how articulate are they about what's going on? Are they able to put name and words? Can they. Can they have a curious discovery conversation with you? Can you practice that with them and get some feedback loop? Or are you literally just trying to, like, watch the behavior to see if you can figure it out? I would say if you've got, you know, the kiddo that is fidgety and needs a lot of physical input, well, you support the need by giving it. And don't getting upset. Like, don't. Don't necessarily get too mad at them when they're, you know, rough housing in the house, but they've been inside all day. It's cold, it's winter, it's getting dark sooner. Like, you know, have them go out and run and play and jump on a trampoline. Like, get. Help them get their needs met if they're seeking physical input instead of just getting frustrated with them that they're being amped up, you know, but go ahead and have them name it. Hey, it seems like your body might be needing to do something. Why don't we go meet your body's needs? Like, even depersonalizing it is so helpful because you're not making some sort of attack on their character. Right. So I. I like the thinking about the discovery process and giving them words to actually articulate their own experience without there being any shame attached to that, like at all. Zero shame. [00:40:34] Speaker B: I think you can do that both overtly the way you're describing so that our kids can learn what they need and advocate for themselves and know how to meet their needs. I think we can also do it covertly in the sense of if, you know, you have a kiddo who needs proprioceptive input and they've been sitting watching a movie. [00:40:53] Speaker A: Yep. [00:40:54] Speaker B: At the end of that movie, are you going to give them a big bear hug or you're going to ask them to carry this heavy laundry upstairs or you're going to be thinking about some things that provide that joint input, that muscle and joint input that is going to kind of allow their body to regulate without even like knowing that's what you're doing. Right. [00:41:13] Speaker A: Be a little sneak attack is what I call. [00:41:15] Speaker B: You can also do some sneak attacks. [00:41:17] Speaker A: That's good. [00:41:18] Speaker C: I think I Like that you're framing it kind of in proactive and responsive. Because to me, what do we do about it? We want to help our kids find regulation. And what works for one kid won't work for another. So you've got one kid you send to the trampoline, and they come in just so overwhelmed and overstimulated. And that was the wrong. That was not the right thing for that kid. But you've got another kid who. That really helps them. I'm thinking of a really specific example. Usually when a sensory need is happening, you're gonna first have a sticky spot with behavior. So I'm thinking again of my big sister and after school getting back into the house. It was just every single day, battle of the siblings. And one of my nieces and nephews particularly was having a really, really hard time. And I was talking to my big sister. We were processing and we talked about. About senses and sensory experiences and what might that kiddo have been suppressing all day to make it through the school day. [00:42:19] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:20] Speaker C: And then they get home and actually what helped them. It's funny because I think sometimes we think, okay, they're feeling fidgety, so they need to move. What helped this kiddo is, hey, every day after school, I think it would be great if you jump in the. In the bathtub. [00:42:35] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:35] Speaker B: That's my number one. [00:42:36] Speaker C: Have a fancy bath. 150. And the like number of after school squabbles dropped dramatically just with that. [00:42:44] Speaker B: Why are we trying to do bath time before bed? It's because it's sensory regulating. But why not take two? And after bath is. Think about it this way, y'. [00:42:55] Speaker C: All. [00:42:55] Speaker B: Being in the water is both sensory rich and sensory soothing. [00:42:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:00] Speaker B: So that it's kind of checking some boxes. I mean, it's not going to work for everybody, but. [00:43:05] Speaker A: But I love a bath. [00:43:07] Speaker B: An afternoon bath during the witching hour. [00:43:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Becca, you've said something that I can't help but have. We said at the top of the episode about our sweet, dear friend Misty Hanks, who's the OT that really helped us get some of this material down and sort of in a way that we could share it with our ETC family. But she laughed. She's like, tana, please just help parents be careful because a weighted blanket doesn't fix everybody's everything. Right. [00:43:35] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Think I want to honor those of us that think that's the answer to your point, Becca, like, not the trampoline's not the answer for everybody. There is no one answer for everybody. [00:43:46] Speaker B: Okay. The fancy bath isn't the answer. [00:43:48] Speaker A: Well, actually it might actually be, Jesse, but I actually that one might be the only one that that's except for the children who are really averse to showers and baths all together. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Learn, guys. And then post in the comments. [00:43:59] Speaker C: Totally. [00:43:59] Speaker A: That's right. That's our comment section. I think for those that struggle with baths, it's probably not. But for most everybody else I think it is. But I just say all that to say that I think we're on a curious process of discovery here. And you have to literally have to test and learn and try it. If it works, great, try it again. It might not work the next time. You know, it just is so, so, so, so situational. Yeah. [00:44:27] Speaker C: I have a small soapbox here which you're hitting on, which is when you first hear of sensory, I think a lot of people immediately buy noise canceling headphones, weighted blanket and fidgets. And they're like, well, this tool is sensory. That's sensory, sensory, sensory. It should work. And then they get into situations where is not what's making it worse. They're throwing the weighted blanket at their sibling or they're tossing the fidget into the dinner table. So I think that the tool can be helpful. The physical things can be helpful when used in the right time with the kid that needs in the right way. Which is why we said at the beginning of the episode, we always, always recommend if you find that there's significant sensory needs, finding that sensory informed OT to help you make some of those decisions. But as a parent, regardless of any professional input, you can pay attention to your kids and you can reframe your thinking and you can reframe what you're going to offer them. [00:45:21] Speaker A: So let's talk about when you might need to seek professional help. Like when might you be on that verge of saying that you have a, you know, sensory processing disorder, which is that that would be the sort of term that would be given in that moment. And I think it is when those difficulties are causing significant daily disruptions and. [00:45:41] Speaker B: In more than one area of life. [00:45:43] Speaker A: I think rot's would say, I would agree with that, Jesse. And then you may want to get some specific support to help a kiddo find the tools and strategies. And again, not to keep harping on this, but man, one of the things I so appreciated about Misty when she would do the evals and then the recommendations is you didn't have to spend a lot of money. You didn't have to buy all the things to actually figure out how to support the kiddo responsively and proactively. That there's literally some ways you can help a kid walk down the hall. [00:46:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: That can help them stay, you know, regulated. So I really, really, really love the idea of getting support. I know that may not be accessible to everybody. And if you are seeking out support and you're trying to find an ot, I would look for one that does have some training and sensory processing support as well. [00:46:34] Speaker B: Even if you're just identifying. Okay, this may not be a disorder, but I'm definitely sensing some issues and difficulties. I would recommend the Sensory Child has Fun. It's a book. Carol Kranowitz, I believe, is the author, and she has all kinds of activities that are supporting those various senses. And if you're having trouble thinking, like, well, what actually could I help my kid do to give input in this area? It gave me a lot of fun ideas, you know, rolling your kid up in a burrito with a blanket or that kind of stuff. And there's all kinds of helpful tips online. [00:47:14] Speaker A: There are, especially about interception. Like, there's a lot of new products on the market that you can go and find that can help you play games to help a child, you know, find the language to figure out their reality of their inner world. [00:47:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:29] Speaker A: And again, that's so deeply tied to emotional regulation. So if you're having a lot of emotional outburst or are really, really struggling emotionally, you may need to do some internal sensory identification that could help them name that and then therefore, maybe be able to support those needs to help with the emotional regulation. So we have found in some of our clinical work that our counselors were often going to the occupational therapist to sort of help identify those internal needs so that they could help them name their emotions. [00:48:00] Speaker B: So much of it, it is all connected. And so one thing leads to another. And this is one piece of the puzzle. But if it hadn't been on your radar, it really is an important piece of the puzzle. Because often when we're teaching this to parents or even professionals, you just see the light bulbs going off in the room. Often it's. We're thinking about stuff with us. [00:48:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:22] Speaker B: Or our spouse, our partner, you're thinking, oh, my goodness, that's why they say that. Or that's why they do that. [00:48:27] Speaker A: That. [00:48:28] Speaker B: And then we think about our kids, and it's a big piece. It's a big piece of the puzzle. I think probably the best tool that I could recommend, not to be gimmicky, but it's both free and costly, which is holding your expectations loosely. It's when we're testing and learning, you know, you're going to take your kid to that theme park, what's going to happen? Stay. You've got to hold the expectations loosely. You got to be willing to, to pivot and change your idea of like, okay, this kid does not ride roller coasters. What will we do instead? You know, we might need to divide and conquer or you're, you know, figuring out what's happening in the school year and, and what needs to happen for different kids to be successful. All of those are kind of being, being willing to be creative and be resourceful and think outside the box and change, change what you were doing. [00:49:27] Speaker C: I think that's the biggest thing is be willing to make adjustments. So whether you're a parent, if you are a school professional listening to this, it's easy to make a blanket statement like, we don't wear jackets in the classroom because people chew on the strings or they hit each other with them. Be willing to make adjustments for the kid that needs that proprioceptive or literally warmth of a jacket. So if you're a parent, be willing to make an adjustment. Maybe I love to cook dinner with the music turned up super loud, but maybe I turned down the volume a little bit to help my child be. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Okay, earplugs, I mean, your ear pods. And turn the volume up as high as you want. [00:50:04] Speaker C: Yes, exactly, exactly. Be willing to make adjustments is what I would say if you're an adult trying to support a kid. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I, I love this conversation so much because I think it is just this really beautiful invitation for attachment and connection and needs meeting. And I know it doesn't always feel that way. Like, I know that, Like, I actually do really know that. I've lived that six times over still right now, always. And, but, but that curiosity, when we can begin to see our kiddos in their unique personalities and experiences and histories and sensory profiles. And if we can switch our mindset to those are sensory needs and needs are opportunities for connection and needs or opportunities for nurture, then the stage is set for you to help your child feel seen and known and loved and supported and valued. Because the world is, is a harsh place. And so if their brain is struggling to perceive the natural world around them, then they're gonna need a way to cope. They're gonna need some strategies that are helpful that will serve them forever. And so helping figure that out. To your point, Jesse, either covertly and then as they get older, go ahead and Name it. Cause you're empowering them as they grow to do it for themselves. It is profound. It's profound. I've had the benefit of a few years and having some of those adult kids that now actually do know themselves pretty well and they're advocating for those needs to be met. And I feel proud that somewhere along the way I was exposed to this information so I could see my kids in a way that allowed them to be celebrated as unique individuals. Not to your point. Moments of it's. It is hard because it means that things don't always go smoothly and we are having to make a lot of accommodations. But those accommodations are made with love and compassion and insight. And I am, I feel really, really thankful that we've had this. A little bit of this knowledge and we had to do major pivots, by the way. So if you're like, way into parenting and you've never thought about this, it's never too late to pivot and learn. Never too late to pivot and learn. [00:52:35] Speaker B: I think also those accommodations end up being experienced as loving care. [00:52:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:41] Speaker B: And you know what's really cool is when your kids get old enough to then reciprocate that, to start being aware of your sensory profile or others. [00:52:51] Speaker A: I see this. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Others around them. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:53] Speaker B: And they're offering that same loving care to others and maybe moderating their own. [00:52:59] Speaker A: Yep. [00:52:59] Speaker B: You know, selves, voice out of kindness, bodies. Yeah. Because they know what the other person is needing to feel. To feel. Just right. [00:53:09] Speaker A: That's a good word. [00:53:11] Speaker B: So here's to raising kind, sensitive, loving kids as we become attuned to their needs, especially physiologically, internally. Thanks for this conversation, guys, and we'll see you next time. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music, on behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Sam.