[E206] Hey You: It's Ok To Be You

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: To the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families, and our communities. Hey, everyone, this is Jesse, and I'm here with Tana ottinger and Becca McKay. And we thought we would talk a little bit about the way that we have learned and grown through the years and how we are still and in the process of doing that. We highly value learners here at Empowered to Connect. I think we would all describe each other that way as learners. It's something we're passionate about doing. It's a part of our process as parents and as humans. And, you know, I love this group of people that we're in conversation with right now. They're dear friends. We are all dear friends. And we get to work together every day. Um, and I'm thinking about how different we are from each other, too. All of us have different personalities. You listening? Today, you have different personalities than. Than each of us. We all are kind of on our own growth trajectory. We're growing at different speeds. We're learning different things. We're coming from different backgrounds. And so as we get started, I thought I would just ask each of you, what's something you used to believe that you've changed your mind about? It could be silly or maybe even something kind of serious. [00:01:32] Speaker C: Oh, man, I got. I have both. So when I was in, like, middle and high school, I was a firm believer, like, did a middle school debate in English class that Pepsi is better than Coke. And for whatever reason, as I've grown, that has changed so much to where, like, no, I don't want Pepsi if that's what's offered. But I remember as a kid really liking Pepsi more, and it just changed. My taste buds changed over time. Time I also moved countries. I think that has something to do with it. [00:02:02] Speaker B: You can hear in Becca's answer that she did not grow up in the South. [00:02:05] Speaker C: I did not grow up in the United States. And so I think also we might use different ingredients. So that was something I changed my mind about. Which is funny, because if you ask people that knew me, then they'll be like, no, Becca doesn't like Coke. Like, I was like, it was a big deal to me to let the people know that I was not a Coke person. And now, like, that is what I'll order when I'm. When I'm out eating fast food or whatever. The more serious one is kind of related to that. I did grow up in another country, and so I believed that the United States was an easy place. Everybody here was doing great. Everyone had what they needed. It was kind of, like, perfect in my mind, like, because I only came back to this, to the United States, every, like, four years or so, and I was with family, and it was gray, and I was around people that loved my family and were loving on us. In college, I became a social work major, and I learned a lot about how not everyone in the United States has had an easy life or has things come easy to them or has everything that they need. It's not just, like, this easy, perfect place where there's no needs. So I really. Yeah, it changed a lot of my mindsets. It changed a lot of how I interact with people, the compassion and empathy that I have for people. [00:03:22] Speaker B: So. [00:03:22] Speaker C: So I think that was a huge one for me. [00:03:25] Speaker B: What about you, Tamara? [00:03:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so funny, Becca, that your first one was about Pepsi and Coke, because my first thought was, I used to think Brussels sprouts were disgusting. I don't think that anymore. I love me some crispy Brussels sprouts from a little restaurant. In fact, Jesse and I were at a conference this past weekend, and I think we ordered crispy Brussels sprouts at least once. I think that's happened every time we're traveling together. So I love me some Brussels sprouts. Okay. On a little bit of a more serious note, something that I have, like, fundamentally changed my mind about over the years is that there's sort of a one narrow pathway to, like, what it means to be a Christian parent and how that looks and feels and expresses itself. So I think just based on Mo and I's background and the community at which we started parenting, we were sent some. Some pretty strict messaging around what it meant to be a Christian parent. So that's flipped, you know, real upside down over the last. While we've been parenting 24 years. So I do not think the same way as I used to, and that that takes form and shape in a lot of different ways. What about you, Jesse? [00:04:44] Speaker B: I need you guys to know I was a pretty opinionated younger person. I'm probably still opinionated, actually. My youngest brother is eight years younger than me, and I remember coming home from college and just talking my mom's ear off in the front seat, and then my younger brother pipes up from the back, why does Jesse have so many opinions? And I just do. I. I had a lot of beliefs about what was the best way to do things, what was right, what was wrong, and it was stuff as simple as, you know, you were talking about Coke and Pepsi. I believed snapple was the 100% best beverage when I was a teenager. And I collected Snapple bottle tops. Did you guys know this about me? No, you did not. I loved Snapple, and I let everyone that I knew know it. And that was kind of the way that I operated too. I was just very strong in my opinions, and everybody knew what I liked and what I didn't like. I mean, now I think the way that I've changed is that I am maybe a little quieter about. About what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy. And it doesn't have to be just one thing. So that's what I was really thinking about. When, you know, you've heard, maybe if you're a regular listener. Tana and Becca talk about how something that's kind of emerged from my life as I've changed my mind about things is nobody's ever just one thing. I used to think, like, I'm either a good parent or I'm a bad parent. That, you know, that person does this or this. You know, he's a Christian or he's not. These. These things that. It's like, actually nobody's ever just one thing. And then being able to embrace the nuance of that and realize, like, we're all complicated, complex people, which is. I was very black and white in my thinking as a younger person. And I've tried to embrace more gray as. As I've gotten older. And also as I've had more questions, like, the older I get, the less questions have, the less answers I have. I actually have more questions about life and about theology and about myself. And I've found myself becoming even more curious. So when I say that we in we value learning at. Etc, it's really that connecting practice of being curious. Like, let's keep learning. Let's keep changing and growing. Um, we're titling this. This episode. It's okay to be you. And it is. I mean, we each bring something completely unique and our growth trajectories, like I said, are completely unique. Um, and there's still so much more to learn and so much more ways that we can grow. So I thought we'd have a little bit of a conversation about this. I would love to know what are some things, maybe frameworks or ideas or different types of things that have helped you learn more about yourself and about the people that you relate with. [00:08:07] Speaker A: It's interesting, Jess, piggybacking on what you just said, I had a thought running through my mind, and then you articulated it. So I just want to, like, put a little fine point on that and then move into this. This next question. I remember in my early 20s sitting in a seminary class and hearing this really older theology professor say, and he was known to be the biblical scholar for a fairly conservative seminary in the South. And he said, the older I get, the less answers I have. And I remember exactly where I was sitting and how that shook me up inside. And I felt really anxious because I'm certain, I thought the older I get, the more certain I'll be. And I have found that same unraveling to echo through, like, the edges of my own life and thoughts and, and way of seeing and being in the world. So this idea of, like, what does that mean when it comes to, like, it's okay to be you? Right? Because I think what we are all longing for is some sort of prescriptive, like, typecast of, like, what it means to be a good this or a right this or the perfect this and sort of the ambiguity and gray and uncertainty of, like, finding that in yourself can actually be quite terrifying. Like, it can. There can be some anxiety connected to that because then what are we striving for? Like, what does it look like and what do we measure it against? You know, So I really appreciate the fact that you brought that up because I think that really frames, kind of the heartbeat here is like, what does it mean to trust? If you're coming from a Christian perspective, what does it mean to trust, you know, you as a person that God made, to be a unique individual? Right? And if not that framework, like, what does it mean to embrace yourself as a unique individual and to learn and grow, realizing that me and my best self is going to look so incredibly different than Becca at her best and Jesse at her best, that I cannot measure myself against other people in that way. Oh, I wish I could. I wish I could. [00:10:40] Speaker B: I was thinking that used to be so frustrating for me because I thought, if only I could be. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Or. [00:10:46] Speaker B: I mean, I was on a trip with Tana recently and I asked her, like, if you could be any other kind of personality, what would you pick? And she was like, what are you talking about? I like my personality. [00:10:56] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, Jesse's like, dang it. She's like grown into some self love or something. What's that? [00:11:02] Speaker B: Like that I have a definite. I wish I were more playful and more spot and, you know, less fettered by, you know, my responsibility to other people and things like that. So the comparison is real. But to Be able to validate who we are and that that is a good thing. And, and leveraging our strengths to grow into those things and become better people and parents. That's a good thing. [00:11:31] Speaker A: It is a good thing. And it's okay if in the process of that there's more answers. I mean, there's more questions than answers. Right. Like it's okay if you. That's where you land and more of, of the gray. Becca, do you have any thoughts on that? I don't want to miss Jesse's question, which were like some, what are some of the tools? Framework. [00:11:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I just think it's easy, especially when we're thinking about parenting and parenting with connection. It's easy to like think that that just looks one way. It's easy to think that that's the person with the sing songy, gentle, meek and mild personality. Always calm, never rattled. And so I think for a lot of people that are listening, it's like I fly off the handle sometimes or like I'm pretty blunt and straightforward or I have a more serious personality. Like I'm not super playful. And I think that it's important for us to just name. You can be a great parent with any personality. You can be a connected parent with any personality. It's not about being a different person. It's about growing as a person no matter what your personality is. Right. Like we all have room to grow. We all have things that we can work on, we can become aware of. We just talk a lot at etc about the difference between our intentions and our impact. And so I think when you're thinking about growing, your personality and your temperament have a lot to do with your intentions. But sometimes the impact of you can be, can rub people the wrong way or can be hurtful to some of your kids or can cause friction. And so I think it's that self awareness piece. So I just appreciate that you're, you're kind of naming. We're not just, yeah, we're not just all striving to be Mary Poppins. I guess even when you said that. [00:13:17] Speaker B: I was like, oh, I don't even think I would have named the perfect parent as the way you described it. Yeah, we all have this idea in our mind and it is probably different from each other. Right. But yeah, we, we can grow and be, be ourselves in the very best way. I want to know what has helped you learn more about yourself as you've kind of been on that journey. [00:13:45] Speaker A: If I hit rewind and think back, two things entered our family's awareness and understanding pretty hand in hand, interestingly enough. And I was sharing this with a group of people not too long ago. I don't know that I can pull them apart from each other. So at about the same time we were learning and understanding about trust based relational intervention and the core of empowered to connect and connected parenting and connected caregiving. Like when all of that was coming into our framework of understanding and was really turning some things upside down. Like some of our maybe frameworks and ideas and the way we thought about human beings and transformation and change, like back then had nothing to do with like neuroplasticity. Like I didn't think about the brain healing and changing in. In our framework, it was all about the heart and the transformation of the heart, which has like kind of no science behind it. So it was confusing to me and I knew something wasn't quite right there. So that came into Mo and I's life at the same has the Enneagram, which I don't know if any of you guys or listeners have heard about that, but I mean we were. Was 18 years ago by now. And a dear friend had been seeing a counselor and therapist that introduced her to that understanding about personality and wiring. And she brought. She was coming to see me for the weekend and this tells you how long ago it was. She brought an eight, a cassette player. And like it was all burned like a cassettes. And we listened to them in a row. And it was about like 20 hours around the Enneagram. And I just remember sitting and I had just gone through a deep dive into the Connected Child, that book. And it was literally like within a month that we listened to this 20 hours about the Enneagram. And I remember just bawling and like feeling some fundamental deep shift was about to happen. And I think interestingly enough, I felt a lot of fear because I felt like, oh, something is shifting in the way that I view the world and I view myself and I view kids and parenting and behavior and spirituality and transformation and sanctification and it might be all about to be upended. But it was like there was hope on the other side of that thing that I had to walk through. But I knew that it was gonna be some undoing. Said I was gonna, you know, since then I've found the words, like I was gonna have to unlearn some things to relearn something new. That's the language I would have now for the process I was going through then. But it was really, really scary. But what I was doing was actually Finding myself more true. Like, Mo and I were not allowing ourselves to be our own personalities in our marriage. We had an idea of what a Christian marriage looked like, male and female role looked like. And we were trying to contort ourselves into that. And we were like, slowly. I don't. I want to be dramatic and be, like, dying inside, but we kind of slowly were because we were just not embracing our unique wiring and the way God made us to be who we are and what it looked like in our family to be those people. So what was being handed to me in little bits and pieces through that season was a lot of invitation to, like, really learn who we are. And then what does it mean for us to grow individually in our personhood? And then how does that support each other? And how can we be those people for one another? So there was, like, invitation and terror. It was a both hand. I was, like, so hopeful and so scared in the middle of that. So I would say TBRI and the Enneagram is what put us onto a trajectory. I've now learned a lot of other things that we can get into in a few minutes, but those are the two core pieces for me. [00:18:04] Speaker C: I think I was just sitting here kind of processing. Myers Briggs is the one that first, you know, in high school, I think even my senior class, I think all took it and talked about it. And I think that was probably one of my first experiences of doing something that's like, let's look at our personalities and talk about how we're wired and those types of things. And so I think that kind of started my interest, my, like, curiosity. Then in college, there's lots of different tools that different people helped me kind of walk through. And my internship that I did right after college, I mean, the internship program I was doing had us do, like, three different ones. And then my placement had me do, like, another two. So I think I had to do, like, five personality tests within, like, a year. And I'll tell you, I mean, your unique Design, Strengths, Finder JVIs. I can't even remember all. I can't. I think we did the Enneagram test. Like, we did all these different personality tests. One of them was, like, an animal. Like, are you a lion, a beaver, a golden retriever, or something else? Like, they're, you know, kind of all these different ways of figuring out how you're wired and who you are. And I would say I had not thought about this until this exact second that we're talking right now, but some of that was really hurtful to Me, some of the conversations about that were really hurtful. Some of that internship year was not a positive growing experience. It was a painting you into a box and highlighting your weaknesses and not allowing you to grow from those. So I would just say I had not really thought about those personality tests specifically. Some of them were really helpful. The JVIs is one that's about your work skills. And it told me when I was like 20 years old I should be a technical writer. And I kind of ignored that for a really long time. And I do a lot of writing in my job right now and I do a lot of editing and proofreading. And I, you know, I think back to that time as like a 22 year old and I was like, what do you mean technical writing? That's not people. I care about people. And so I think like those were some highlights. The Enneagram has been really meaningful to me in my marriage. It's been something that has really helped me grow. But I also think when I think about this, I guess I just want to say be cautious with the conversations because well meaning people did some harm to me as a young 20 something who was trying to figure out myself and how I'm wired. I had one, we were doing one debrief with that internship class and it was a guest speaker. So it was no one involved in my program. It was not anyone related to the program I was in. I loved the program. But the guest speaker looked at whatever test we had taken and said, you're probably really good at homework and your friends, you probably make your friends feel like they're never, never good enough for you. And he just kind of said that and moved on to the next person. And he was giving glowing positives to everyone. And then that's what he said about me. And it really was hurtful. This is not where this conversation is supposed to go. We're supposed to be staying on the positive. But I just like what you say to people about their wiring and their personality matters a lot. And that has stuck with me. It's now been like 12 years ago, so that has really stuck with me. And knowing yourself, knowing your weaknesses, stepping into places of growth with trusted people who can help you with that is one of the best things ever. And I think being a lifelong learner is probably the main takeaway. Whatever test you like or that is interesting to you or that resonates with you, I think can be helpful if the goal is what Tana said. Unlearning, learning, growing, being, you know, being. Yeah, being, being. On that trajectory towards healing, towards your potential. All those things. Sorry, that was kind of a side note. [00:21:52] Speaker A: I. [00:21:53] Speaker C: It just hit me as I was thinking about those tests that. That moment just, like, came up for me. [00:21:57] Speaker A: It's true. We're. Hey, we're practicing, like, real reflection in real time. [00:22:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:01] Speaker A: I. I think, Becca, if you don't mind, if I just sort of respond to that a little bit, I really appreciate what you shared because I had done a bunch of those things before, so I don't. I'm not going to spend our episode talking about it's okay to be who you are doing an Enneagram commercial. But you literally used a word. That is why it's the one that I've stuck with all these years. [00:22:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Because my. My experience has been similar, which was we're going to give you an evaluation and tell you who you are. [00:22:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Whereas the Enneagram doesn't put you in the box until you. Who you are. It tells you the box you put yourself in and how to get the heck out of. Tells you the growth trajectory. It gives, like, some recommendations for. For growth. To me, it's the most hope hopeful and hope filled because I still believe in this. Like, it can sound like a contradiction, but it's so deeply the same thing, which is like, it's. It is like, if. If y'all hear anything from this episode today, like, we want you to know, like, it's okay to be you. [00:23:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:16] Speaker A: But the you that you are today isn't going to be the same you that gets to be there tomorrow and the next day and the next day. So it's the growth trajectory. It's the. The learning and the changing and like the becoming more of you. Right. And that process is the beautiful process that I think was beginning to be unhooked and unlatched for me during that season. And what I would hope that would mean is that it's not always comfortable. My gracious sakes. It's not easy, but it's not harmful. And what I think sometimes this conversation and this idea is, is, and can be really, really harmful and hurtful and painful because we feel like we are too much or not enough or don't have what we need or. Or our insight or our intuition is wrong or the thing that we believe to be true, or if we put it in the context of parenting, what our babies need. Like, I think sometimes we fight against that instead of, like, trusting that process of like, your intuition about what's going on for your babies is probably right. It isn't always right, you know, but if you're trying to learn and grow, if you're trying to understand, if you're practicing curiosity, if you're being thoughtful and prayerful and mindful and contemplative about your parenting, then you're on the journey of growing into being the more true and good and right parent that your baby needs. And it's like, it's you. It's not somebody else like, it's you. They need a healthy you. They need a mindful you. They need a contemplative you. They need an insightful, compassionate you. And that is not about your dang personality. It's not about if you're an introvert or an extrovert or you're direct or more conscientious. It's just not about that. And I think that we think it is. And it isn't at all, actually. Like, I am such an out, you know, loud, extra boisterous, direct mom. And I really admire moms that are wired like me, and some that are wired really, really differently than me. Yeah, I think they're both beautiful in their own right. So it's okay to be you, but just don't, like, accept impact of you if it's hurtful. You know what I mean? Let the you that is you become a better version of that. [00:26:06] Speaker B: Right. I was hearing from what Becca shared that we can be careful about what we declare about other people and who they are. I was even identifying a little bit with, you know, those. Those early teenage years when you're discovering who you are and how you're wired. And I remember being on a youth retreat where they told us that they needed, you know, a couple of people to wake up early and go to the kitchen and set the table for everybody. And I did it, and I got so much positive reinforcement for it that I did it for every single meal for the entire weekend. And then I did it for every single retreat that we ever had again. And I remember, even a couple of years later, getting to serve in a volunteer role as a high schooler for a junior high thing and a college kid, a guy saying, isn't Jesse so amazing she's going to make a great wife one day? And are you hearing these things that are, like, being declared or reinforced or, like, kind of laid over who I was? It's not that those things weren't true about me, but they were kind of like funneling who I was into a certain direction or certain path, and that was resonating with me. When Becca was Talking about, you know, what was. What was discerned about who she was or, like, the. The. The output of that personality test. So, like, we can be careful. We can be careful about the family role that we put on our kids or the way that we talk about the young people in our lives. We get to pull out their best. We get to help them be curious about themselves. We don't get to tell them how they're going to do that. Right? And that's part of. That's part of letting them and the people around us grow as people. I was thinking about also my original orientation to these types of personality tests. I've always been fascinated with them. I always wanted to win them. I am. I mean, regular listeners, you know, I poke fun at myself and y'all poke fun at me about how competitive I am. It is just part of that, is part of who I am, too. But I really just felt like I was trying to game the system when I would take one of those tests. Like, I'm going to come out on top. Whatever I have deemed to be the best personality in this framework, I will get it, or I'm going to win. And I remember I've told you guys this story before, but I don't think I've told it on the podcast. I remember sitting in the college freshman orientation in the middle of the summer, and I, as a high school student, had changed the college I was going to start in, I think, two or three times before I even got to orientation. And I had changed it from. I changed it from education to business because I had been subbing for a preschool. And I was so exhausted that I was like, I cannot do education. Changing that one. And I. I thought, okay, I'm going to do marketing. That sounds fun. I can get really passionate and persuasive about something. There is something about me that, like, has a little, little tiny salesperson inside me. So I thought, okay, I'm going to do marketing. And I sat in the orientation meeting, and, you know, it was me, my mom, my dad. And then we're in this whole row of students and parents, and they start going through the prereqs, and it's like math class after math class after math class. And my dad writes something on a piece of paper and passes it down the row, and I open it up and it says, you're never going to make it. Let's get out of here. And I honestly, that was formative for me in a good way of, like, stop trying to be somebody you're not. Jesse, like, okay, maybe. Maybe I probably could have, like, made it through with a tutor and, like, found my way in business. I could do that probably. But he was seeing, like, this isn't the way you're wired. You struggle in mass. Like, why are we trying to force you into this? Like, let's go to the College of Fine Arts. [00:30:30] Speaker A: Okay? [00:30:31] Speaker B: Let's just, like, start with an undeclared major and let you learn some things. And that was really helpful. So I think through that, I've. I've Even from that experience, like, it changed. I changed my mind. And I learned from my parents it's okay to change my mind about myself or about what I want to do. And that. That has been so helpful to me from. It was such a gift to me to just let. To open up that note and be like, you're never gonna make it. Let's get out of here. You would never think that message from a parent would actually be a positive life change for a kid, but it was. And then instead of trying to be, you know, the best, whatever was in my mind, it was like, well, what am I good at? What am I passionate about doing? What do I enjoy? And I've tried to kind of follow those things. I, too, am a lover of the Enneagram. It has taught me so much about my orientation to the world and my orientation toward other people and even more, I mean, maybe just as helpful as it's been for me is to be able to see my kids or my spouse or my co workers in a different light instead of, like, looking through the filters we each look through, and we assume everyone thinks through those and looks through those filters too. It's just a natural way. We tend to think of, like, well, everybody thinks the way I do. It has opened up my mind to. Actually, not everybody is thinking about it the way that I think about it. My child is not thinking about this the way I'm thinking about it. What is most important to her is not what is most important to me in this moment. And that is okay. It is okay for my kid to be herself, and it is okay for me to be myself. It's okay from, you know, us three co workers on this podcast to all look at things our own way and then, like, bring that to the table. It's actually made our work so rich and good. And so I've really. I've really valued that. I also want to give a shout out to Gretchen Rubin's four tendencies. That also has been a framework that's been really helpful for me to see, like, what motivates me, like in terms of other people, do I need to do. What am I going to do to get myself going or to hold myself accountable? Like, do I need something outside of myself to do that? Am I going to require it to come from within me? Which also helps me know when I'm teaching or when I'm parenting, that not everybody is extrinsically motivated. Meaning, like, just because I tell my kid something's important doesn't mean she will believe it's important. She might have a personality that has to believe that from within herself. And I'm going to have to disciple and teach and guide that a different way than I would for someone who's extrinsically motivated. So all of those things have made me a better person and a better mom and a better spouse. And I'm still growing. I love, I love taking in new ideas and information about this that helps me see the world a different way. So what are some other aha moments that you guys have had or what are some other things that have helped you learn more about yourself and other people? [00:33:55] Speaker C: I think two big ones that are not going to surprise anybody who listens to this is when I learned about fight, flight, freeze, fawn. Like when I learned that my stress response was to flight was to run away from the conversation, the conflict, the tough moment. It was really helpful because I don't think I had ever seen that as a stress response before. So I was able to like talk with my husband, co workers, friends, family members. And like now I still tend to do that. I still tend to want to get out of a tough conversation or a stressful moment, but I recognize it as stress and I can take steps to try to regulate myself or get help in. In our marriage, knowing that my husband tends towards fight and that I tend toward flight has been really helpful for us in like conflict resolution. The other one that comes to mind is not just attachment styles necessarily, but the idea that we can either dismiss emotions or get tangled up in them. The idea that there's kind of that spectrum has been helpful for me to be like, oh, I get really tangled up. When I was a school counselor, I got real tangled up in my kids emotion, like in trying to help them. But like I was getting dysregulated, I wasn't staying calm and regulated. And collected. And so I think those two, like learning about the stress responses and the attachment have been some pretty big ahas. And they come up time and time and time again. Like I feel Myself, even as a friend. Now when someone calls me, I have to be like, hang on. I can be present with this person without getting tangled up and getting upset myself. So it's like things like that, like, it comes up kind of throughout life through. Through lots of different relationships. I'm a brand new mom. And so knowing that I am stressed out when my baby is stressed out, like, I get tangled up and I'm. If she's crying, I am hurting. Like it hurts me physically if she's upset. She spent a good amount of time in the hospital and she had to go through a lot of things and it was like physically and emotionally painful for me. But I'm aware of that. I'm aware that I tend to get tangled up and I'm able to choose how am I going to regulate myself, how am I going to be present for her. There's some times when the doctors were like, you might want to step out. And I was like, no, I'm going to stay present and I'm going to be okay for my baby. But like, I have to know my tendency in order to choose that thoughtfully. So I don't know if that answers your question, but those are a couple of the ones that kind of pop to my mind as I'm thinking about that. [00:36:31] Speaker A: I love that question and I, I love even Becca's answers. I'll give a few and then Jesse, I'm super curious even what you would say because I think this hints at the nuance of it all. Like, as we're learning and understanding ourselves, there just like there's no one right way to be. There's no path to self understanding. Right. There's going to be different kinds of things that mean different things to us and help us have different insight. I mean, y'all have heard us talk. If you've been listening to the podcast for any length of time or been on our YouTube, we love the idea of play personalities. And so I really. That was helpful that Stuart Brown's. It's part of a Stuart Brown book called Play and he. And we have something on our YouTube channel about play personalities if you want to go learn more about that. But when that entered our family's dynamic, that was a huge aha moment because it helped us all go, ah. Another little touch of insight to how we're all showing up because we believe play is like so foundational to connection. But if we don't have a foundational understanding that we all play differently, then we could miss each other. So if we're trying to pursue connection. And we don't understand that that's going to look different, then we're going to miss each other as well. So on the pursuit of connection, having insight around how each one of us plays was really helpful along with those attachment patterns and stress responses. And then I would hint at a little bit of and it's kind of connected to play, but that I have unique needs in terms of the way I recharge and reset and rest and Sabbath. Like those ideas of like what do I need and how I need to restore and reset are going to be very uniquely wired to me. And so giving myself permission to be like, hey, what gives me energy is to like decorate 100 million Christmas trees at Christmas. And that's me. And I, it's not that that's right or wrong, it's just I get a lot of energy putting a lot of energy into like going overboard on holiday decor. And that doesn't, maybe that wouldn't even feel or look like rest to somebody else it would look like work. But to me it's rest and restoration. So embracing those kinds of things as unique personality wirings so that we can celebrate and honor and cherish and like approach ourselves and other people in a non judgmental way. Like if, if, if one of my dearest friends said, hey, rest to me is a tabletop Christmas tree and we're not even recording this at Christmas time. It's just what's on my mind. But a tabletop, teeny tiny Christmas tree was right for me this holiday season. I'm not going to approach that with judgment. If I have 9 million at my house, it's different. So I think that's a silly example, but it plays out in so many different ways. I want my people and I want myself and I want our team. If I put this in work context, I want my husband. If I put this in my spouse context, I want my children, if I put this, put this in our family context to feel so uniquely safe being who they are. And I really do believe that that is what makes the best dynamics in teams and families and marriages is not. We do not want to try to contort ourselves to be images of each other. Oh, good gracious, that is exhausting. That's exhausting. But the other, there's freedom and rest and it's just quite lovely. What about you, Jesse? [00:40:29] Speaker B: Even with each of our different personalities and our different, I mean each of us has a different family culture. I know your families and they look very different from each other, but I would say that championing who each other is and letting there be freedom to live into that is probably the same about each of our families. And I think that is a very special sauce about. Etc and we invite you listeners to be part of that special sauce too. Let's, instead of trying to tamp down who we are or who our people are, like just championing who they are and letting them flourish and working and growing towards those paths of flourishing for ourselves, I think is such a freeing thing. You know, Tana was talking about sizes of Christmas trees when I was a young wife. I remember having. It was right when Pinterest was actually coming of age or like being, being invented. And you know, I'd gotten past the wedding season in my, like all of that stuff that people can really draw from Pinterest on but was coming into like this new domestic life and those that first handful of years of marriage with, with Pinterest coming onto the scene. And my friend was talking about different plate sizes. She too was the kind of personality that just got so much energy from doing lots of things and like, it seemed like she was the Martha Stewart also somebody still on the scene doing all the things. And it was funny because I felt judged for not doing very many things and having kind of a quiet, simple life. And she on the other hand, felt judged by having her hand in everything and spinning all the plates. And I remember having a conversation with her once and she just described it like, I see it this way, I've got a really large plate and like it feels like a full meal to just load it up, but there's room for everything. Maybe you don't have the same size plate. And I just remember being like, that is such a game changer to just be able to realize like, it's truly talking about our stress capacity, right? Our capacity and any given season for what we're allowing into our lives and what we're going to keep off of our plates. But that was so helpful to me to realize, like, there are ways that we are all different and we can celebrate those ways and acknowledge them and be aware of them. And then there are ways that we are alike and we can also find unity and belonging and togetherness in those things too. Anytime I was. Anytime I've kind of come to one of these new ways of thinking. I don't know about you, but it has kind of uncovered a little bit of shame for me, something about who I am that it touched on of like, oh, I always didn't like this about myself or I always thought that was strange about me or different than everyone else. And if you feel that way when you're becoming aware, whether it's talking about attachment styles or talking about your enneagram number, or even when you think about the size of your plate, I just want to encourage you to keep uncovering it. Because that's the whole thing about shame and feeling that about part of who we are is that, like, if we'll just air it and bring it up into the light, we actually realize, like, that can be a good part of us. There's something good in that. How can we. How can we find it and use it? And, you know, it's like that idea that our greatest strength is our greatest weakness, but also some of those things that we feel ashamed of being weaknesses, we can find the strength in them too. Right? So I guess just encouraging us all that awareness is the first piece of that. And, and don't. Don't stop growing. Don't stop learning. You've. You've got within you what you need to become the best you. And that is who your kids need. Yeah. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Jesse. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Thank you guys for kind of joining me in a conversation about this. And thank you, listener, for sticking with us in this conversation to who you are is enough. And we hope that you enjoy this journey of learning and growing alongside us. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources, thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at. Etc. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together.