[E 193] Rhythm and Blues: Unlock the power of routines

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Empowered to connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families, and our communities. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Hey, guys, as we jump into our fall of releasing new episodes of the podcast after our summer hiatus, you're going to notice some changes. We have some new formats that we're going to try out, some exciting things coming, and a little bit of bittersweet news as well. Our host, JD Wilson, is not going to be with us at the Empowered to connect podcast anymore. He hosted close to 200 episodes. We loved his heart and his voice that he brought to the episodes that he was part of. [00:00:41] Speaker A: As JD was transitioning, he had the chance to share a few parting words with us, and so let's take a listen. Hey, JD, why don't you share what the podcast has meant to you over all these years? [00:00:51] Speaker C: I mean, I could talk for hours about what all this has meant to. [00:00:55] Speaker B: Me and to my family and how helpful it's been that during the pandemic. [00:01:00] Speaker C: When parenting was very difficult, I was kind of being tethered every week by. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Talking with you and talking with professionals. [00:01:09] Speaker C: And talking with our staff and our. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Team and talking about how we can do this thing together. It's been one of the great honors in my life to host this, and. [00:01:19] Speaker C: I will greatly miss getting to be on the air each week with you. [00:01:24] Speaker A: I know I speak for everyone when I say that JD's voice and hosting just held a really special place in the empowered to connect community, and we're going to miss him so much, and we wish him all the best in his next endeavors. He's still in the Memphis area, and we love seeing him. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, without further ado, let's jump right back into the empowered to connect podcast. I'm Becca McKay here with Jesse Ferris and Tana Ottinger, and we are really excited to jump in today and talk about just how helpful routines and rituals can be when we are caring for kids in all kinds of different ways. But as we get going today, guys, how are you? [00:02:07] Speaker A: How am I? How am I? I'm doing well. Things are starting to feel like school is around the corner for me, and I'm not sure when we will air this episode. It'll probably be after school has started. But you know that point in the summer where it's like, okay, I'm ready. And also, there's a long list of things to do. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah. What about you, Tana? [00:02:33] Speaker C: This is being recorded on a Monday, right? So I have, like, whatever. Like, my Monday check in is and I did. I was out of town last, the end of last week for a work trip. So some of my meetings this morning, I'm like, what was I thinking? Like, scheduling a very full meeting Monday after being out of town for work. So in real time, I feel, like, a little slightly behind, just like, what needs to get done today, which is making me have some feelings. But I've been feeling that similar sense of, like, oh, it's time to, like, start letting my mindset transition to the kickoff of a school year. And, you know, I've shared on the podcast before, like, we have, you know, four older, like, young adults, and then we have two kiddos that are going into 6th grade, so we're starting middle school, and they're just getting a little older and more independent. And so the summer's been just fun. Some of my work summers historically, over the last couple of years have been, you know, challenging as a full time work and mom. And this one has just felt kind of easy. And I'm maybe not super ready for the routines and structure of, like, the normal school rhythm to start. And so I think I'm feeling a little grief that it's. That we just have a few weeks left. So. [00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah, me too, Tana. I have a love affair with my Google calendar. And so we had a rendezvous last night, Google calendar. [00:04:07] Speaker C: And I. [00:04:07] Speaker A: And I put in my, like, school drop off and pickup recurring events. We were like, oh, for a few weeks from now. And I was like, oh, I was really in my feelings about it. [00:04:20] Speaker B: As we're recording this, we are about to do. We do facilitator training for our parenting class. Cultivate connection, usually about once or twice a year. And phase one is, like Tuesday nights online, and then phase two is three whole days. And so that's this week. So I resonate with you, Tana, on the, like, all the tasks and all the things. And then that in addition to, we've got this big training. So that takes us away from our day to day, which we're super pumped about, being with our facilitators and training and getting them out into the world, hopefully to your neighborhoods to bring the class to you. But my decision this year. In the past, I've been like, Rico, I can do nothing else. This is facilitator training week. I am stressed. Do not talk to me about anything. And this year I was like, okay, I have to still exercise even though I don't want to. So I woke up at, like, 04:00 this morning to get to a early, early cycling class, which I was not. I did not want to do it, but I told myself if I just let it be like a free for all because life is stressful, it will always be a free for all because life will always be stressful. So I feel you on the, like, early morning. What is this back to routine? Like what are we doing? How do we, how do we hold on to those things? [00:05:31] Speaker C: Why, why, why is this happening again? [00:05:34] Speaker B: For sure. For sure. I feel like we're all in the same boat here. And it kind of ties in with our topic of the day, which is what are routines and rituals and how can they help us. So we're going to kind of break these apart. And the first thing we want to talk about is just routines. So, Jesse, I wonder if you wouldn't mind just talking through what, what is a routine when it comes to parenting, when it comes to caregiving, what does it include? And just kind of like, what's, when we say it, what do we mean by it? [00:06:04] Speaker A: Sure. I'm like scrambling normally when we're teaching this and cultivate connection, I've got my manual with me and we've got a slide that has an exact definition. We're not going that route today when we're talking with you all today. But I would say a routine is something that you're doing regularly and we'll talk about what that means in a second, regularly, over and over. And it's also kind of a bridge from one moment to the next. So whether, let's talk about regularly in moments, because that can be very loose. It could be what we're talking about, like a routine is a back to school routine, you know, or starting the summer routine. Those things happen and they're, you know, I normally are like, you've got your summer routine down. We're having to, like, get back into the school routine. And that looks different for me. But it could be something every day, you know, your morning routine, when you wake up, your bedtime routine, when your kids go to bed or when you go to bed after school routine, what happens when you walk through the door, when you get home or all of those little things? It can be kind of times of year. It could be times of the day, it can be times of the week. If you go to a place of worship once a week, that's part of your routine and your weekly routine. They're the things that provide that sense of structure and stability and familiarity that when we do them over and over, they create this rhythm in our life. And I have a friend that does not love routine, and we kind of spar over it every now and then. And I. But this friend loves music. So this was kind of always the thing that I was like, yeah, but you love rhythm, and so you can at least appreciate how, like, any good music has rhythm, even if it's not. Like, even jazz has rhythm. And it's completely unpredictable jazz as a music form, but it's got that rhythm that's driving it in the background. So even if you're not a highly structured person, like, I probably would categorize myself as, chances are you can at least appreciate a rhythm and have that loose structure kind of humming along in the background of your life as you guys play the jazz of your life on top of it. Yeah. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Tana, what would you add? [00:08:45] Speaker C: First of all, I'm loving that music analogy. Okay. Jesse, just pulling that one up, like, that's incredibly helpful because I do think we're all, you may be uniquely wired to tend to, like, really love this or value it. Like, we talked a little bit about that before we got started. Like, I think, Jesse, you're very passionate about this concept and content, which usually comes out when the three of us are working through this material together. And I think over time, I've had to understand its value and maybe find and watch and pay attention to the gift that routine can be specifically from for my kids and then our whole family by nature. So when I think about the benefit of routines, I think about how they build trust and felt safety. So if you've got kiddos who maybe have had a, you know, unstable situations or instability, there's my words. I was trying to find. Maybe they haven't always had a level of predictability on what was going to happen next. Maybe there's been exposure to difficult situations or traumatic events or a not a non nurturing, rhythmic routine growing up environment. I think we cannot underestimate the power of that routine. I love that picture, Jesse, of it just humming away in the background. And when other things get shaky, that stays consistent. And so I think about how brains and bodies can come to rest when there is a routine in place that we can fall back on. And so maybe my invitation would be to some parents who don't find it something as natural to them, or maybe even it makes you feel a little claustrophobic or kind of boxed in. I can resonate with that deeply. I like spontaneity. I like to sort of go with the flow. And that just did not serve me super well in my young parenting. So I have found a my way to a routine, my way to putting that in where it was, as much as I could do right compared to others. It might not look the same, but it's my version of a family kind of daily, weekly routine. And it's been unbelievable, especially for kiddos who have a little underlying anxiety or a sense of just not feeling real comfortable day to day. So I think there could be, it's a missing piece, maybe to supporting them. We don't always think about it because it's very intentional. [00:11:43] Speaker B: I love those threads that you guys just highlighted and even the fact that you're talking about just different approaches to it. Like, for Jesse, it sounds like it provides a lot of felt safety for you to do routines versus for Tana, it's a little bit outside of your comfort zone, but you see the value of it. So I think parents, like everybody, has a different perspective on it. And it is that question of, do I like to be spontaneous or do I like things to go in order? What I love about routines is that I think there's room for both of those to exist. So I mentioned, you know, last time that we recorded, I spent some time with my family, and it was middle of summer, and it was really cool to see the routines that they kept for the summer versus the ones that they let go of. So my sister has really young kids. They're like five to nine, there's three of them. And so it was interesting to just be part of this is how we do bedtime as a family. And it's the same as when I visited during the school year versus, like, breakfast was a free for all. I mean, these kids were grabbing, like, leftover hamburgers from the night before, and that was their breakfast. And it was like, this is summer, like, figure it out. And there was no homework routine. There was not, like, there was way less structure around dinner time. Like, so just the things that hold versus the things you let go of. So I think if you're more of a spontaneous parent, maybe, like, there's room for you, there's room for you in this, in the routines. And if you're super structured, maybe think about what are the areas for spontaneity that I could let go of some of these things, but I think it could be helpful for parents to hear. What can routines be helpful for? So what are the kinds of things that are challenging that let you know, oh, maybe there's a routine that might be needed here. Jesse, what comes to your mind first? [00:13:26] Speaker A: Oh, even when you're saying that I mean, I think routines and our reactions to them tell us about ourselves, right? Because I always going to want to bring that back to attachment theory and the stuff that's underneath everything. So it's like, I even wonder why. I know that my desire for more structure, for felt safety comes out of. I grew up with permissive parents, and so I really kind of grasped for that type of structure. I created it for myself as a young person and then creating my own family. That's what does. You're exactly right. It helps me feel safe. But I think I could have responded the opposite way and been like, that helps me feel safe because I grew up that way. And so I think it tells us a little bit about ourselves and the way that we have responded to our histories just in general. But I think what I would. What I primarily use routines for in an intentional way is solving pain points in my home. So if there is. And speaking of attachment theory, like I have shared before, I tend to lean a little dismissive. I'm trying to earn some secure attachment coming from a dismissive background, avoidant background. And so it's really difficult for me when someone is feeling unhappy in my family. Usually I want to fix that as soon as possible. And not that there's anything wrong with solving a problem, but I do recognize, like, that's probably coming from having a hard time sitting with the discomfort of that family member. But I think about routines as one of the first things, the first. One of the first threads I'm going to pull on when someone is experiencing some unhappiness in the family in terms of like, for example, my husband a couple weeks ago was unhappy with. There was, you know, something going on in the mornings that had somehow taken away some time to himself that he had had, you know, and everybody's got a certain way they like to wake up and certain way they like to approach the day. And his had been messed with. So that point, pain point of like, okay, well, what happened? What changed and why did it change? And what need was the change? Trying to, you know, that it's. I just approach it in a very, like, kind of scientific way of like, all right, you know, what needs to happen in order to adjust this routine? The very nature of routines is that we do them over and over, but they're not fixed. Right. We can. We can change them according to what works best for everyone in the family, not just one person. So that was, you know, I'm going to solve for X. It's like, okay, well, how does everybody get their needs met in the morning. What is the best routine that we can do? And it's probably going to involve compromises from everyone. You know, like, okay, what time can these people come down into the kitchen? What time are the parents willing to start? Our kids are older. Obviously, we can make these kinds of negotiations with kids, with older kids that we couldn't when our kids were younger. But that's kind of the thing that I'm using routines for these days. When my kids were younger, I was using it a lot for felt safety. We didn't have a lot of flexibility within certain personalities in my family, and so we would use our routines to kind of provide that sense of knowing what was going to happen. You can trust us, you can trust this family, you can trust what's going to happen. And what I would see is when we tried to do spontaneous things, especially into the evening, it didn't go well for us. We didn't enjoy those times. It often involved, involved meltdowns and behaviors that no one was enjoying and dysregulation. And so we found that kind of putting those predictable pieces in place really kind of helped everyone in our family thrive. So did I choose to be that way? Like, yeah, probably partly from my personality, but also part of it was shaped by all the personalities coming together in my family, you know, and matching up and trying to negotiate needs of everyone within their windows of tolerance for flexibility, if that makes sense. [00:18:16] Speaker C: So, Jess, you just said something that made me think of, like, Becca, you were kind of asking, like, when can you use routines? And Jesse, you said pain points. So I. And then gay, I think that is so insightful because that kind of pain points going to look different for different families, for different, you know, maybe you're an educator listening to this and you're thinking about the maybe times that the classroom might feel chaotic or those kinds of things. So in parenting, sometimes I think about, of course, again, depending on age and stage of kids transitions, mornings, waking up and getting ready and getting out the door. Bedtimes. Oh, my goodness. The number of times we've done a Q and a and the parents are talking about the difficulty of bedtime. So a routine at bedtime is, I really think, like, paramount to, like, family emotional well being. Like, are you as a family doing okay? How is bedtime? Those things are almost the same answer. Maybe completing tasks, getting, like you said, homework or chores or sort of whatever it is that needs to just get accomplished around the house. You can work routines into those which can be cleaning or tidying, just the things that need to happen for the day to be accomplished, for the week to be accomplished, for. For mom and dad's work, for mom's morning routine, for dad's getting home from work routine, mom's getting home from work. Like, whatever those spots are where tension can happen. And, Jess, you said, like, maybe where people are unhappy and maybe they can't even articulate it, right? [00:20:00] Speaker A: Seeing it in the behavior is telling you, that's right. [00:20:03] Speaker C: That this is not going well because there's meltdowns this time every day. Like, so it takes some thoughtful, intentional reflection to figure out maybe a routine would be here. And then if I was getting into, like, okay, well, how do you do that? And how. How do you build a routine? Sometimes it's already happening. Usually it's already happening. There's already, if you think about it, like building a house, whatever's happening is the foundation. And maybe some of the studs, you as the parent and caregiver, are coming on and putting the sheet rock on and hanging the windows with intention, maybe carving the pathway through the house. You're the one setting up the framing of the house to figure out how to make your way through it and keeping that as rhythmic and routine as possible. So I can just give some very practical examples. It's funny, we were talking about this this morning, how mo and I figured out very early on, in between the two of us, I'm naturally more a night owl, and he's naturally more a morning person. So that was our natural rhythm. So in parenting, guess what we figured out. Who's got the earliest morning tasks? Mo. And he's not bitter, upset about that. Who is closing the house down at night? Tana not bitter and upset about that. We immediately figured it out. He gets up, he gets the lunches going. He starts breakfast, he makes the coffee. I am sticking close to the kids and helping them wake up and get up. And maybe I'm the one that's snuggling for a little bit longer. So I'm managing more of the, like, nurturing morning care while he's doing more of the functional, get the family ready to leave because he's been up for an hour and a half before me. Does that make sense? So that was a routine that is now part of the day. We don't ask, ever. Never is the question, who's making coffee? Who's making lunches? No, it is just what we do. So if a kid gets up early, they know where dad is in the house. If they want some snuggles, they know mom's probably still up in the room peddling about a little bit, so we don't talk about it. But there's a felt safety and trust that they kind of know what's going on. So if that's going to change, then we reveal in advance. We don't have to always reveal the routine, but we do want to reveal when the routine is going to be changed for some reason. Dad's leaving early. Dad's out of town. Mom's going to be out to work early today. Then we know, let's tell the kids what's coming, because they need. We need to be flexible in the morning. Something's shifting. That kind of idea translates to everything. Who does homework? Who picks the kids up? Who. Who's the one that does the school shopping? Who. Everything is this way. [00:23:07] Speaker A: You're reminded when you say that as far as if it's going to change, revealing it in advance reminds me of the way that our routines allow us to work on autopilot, even when life gets really busy or something really terrible happens or, you know, you just layer when you've got layer upon layer. If you've got that routine you're running on autopilot often. It's what Tawna's saying. You don't have to ask who's doing this. Everyone knows their part. Everyone knows the order. But it reminds me of, like, when I'm running an errand that I don't run very often, and I. And I just, like, start driving to school. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:48] Speaker A: And my kids are like, where are you going, mom? And I'm just running on autopilot. Right. It's like, I think we do that. It's. We have to be intentional when we're breaking those routines or doing something different, or else it's like, where are you going? What's happening right now? [00:24:05] Speaker B: I love that you guys are having. When we think. When we say the word routines, I think a lot of times what immediately comes to my mind, I'll say, which, I love that you're blowing it up a little bit, is like, this is what the kids must do. Like, I think when I hear the word routine, I'm like, the children must brush their teeth and do this and clean the room and do that. And so I think because in a school system, when we talk about routines, a lot of times it is, what are the students to do? And as an educator, you have to work really hard to teach those expectations and to reinforce them. I love that you're making me think about it a little bit more broadly. It's what we all do. It's the way that you, if you are a teacher, it's the way that you say good morning, in the morning and if you have your coffee cup or not. And if you. I remember as a kid, I have not thought about this in, I don't know, 20 years. I remember as a kid we had a teacher that always wore a tie, but he didn't have very many. So on the way to school in our little bus, we would guess which tie is he going to be wearing today. So, like, he didn't do that. So that we would have that conversation in the bus, but that became part of our routine. So I'm just appreciating that you guys are helping me think bigger, beyond. So it is what we expect kids to do, but it's also what we do. And I love that you're highlighting how we communicate whenever things are going to be different to kids can be so supportive, can be so helpful if we. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Have what you didn't say that is part of that is it's what kids expect us to do. [00:25:36] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:25:37] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:25:37] Speaker A: That's right. That's happening. And when we don't do those things, that's, it causes similar feelings as when our kids don't do what we expect them to do. [00:25:48] Speaker C: That's right. Yeah, that's right. [00:25:50] Speaker B: So many threads to pull on. I wonder if someone's listening and they're like, okay, but we did try a bedtime routine. It's just, it's not going very well. What are some tips that you guys have to help you set Antana to practice outside the moment? Or what are some things that can help us to really solidify needed routines? [00:26:11] Speaker C: Well, maybe the way I'll start with this. And then I'm thinking Jesse probably has a bunch of really good ideas. I something that's come out and I want to put just a fine point on it. We've talked about needs a lot. So I do think sometimes we can think about a routine as a schedule that we have posted of tasks. Okay, that might be part of it, but that is projected on it is not done collaboratively with and it isn't always following the lead and the need. So I want a routine that works all of those things together. Our tasks are getting completed, but we're following the lead and we're following the need of ourselves and our kids and our family structure. So again, I'll say if you're parenting with a parenting partner, just what are your natural predispositions and relationships with the kids and who needs to do what parts. Okay, then, if you're having to do it alone, like how are you going to get those parts done while keeping a high amount of nurture and a high amount of structure. So the routine needs to be both nurture and structure. So the tasks are the structure, the following, the lead and need, and adding in that component is the nurture. If you get heavy handed or fall down on one side of those, it probably isn't going so well. So getting up in the morning, if you've got a kiddo that wakes up slow, that needs a bit more time, that needs some snuggles, that needs a little extra love or care, that needs to be part of your part, you providing, that needs to be part of your morning routine so that you're following the lead and need and setting everybody up for success. Don't let that need take you by surprise every morning. They are the child that needs the love and cuddles and slow waking up probably today and tomorrow and forever until they don't need it anymore. And I don't know how long that's going to last. If somebody can let me know, please send a so's. Okay. [00:28:20] Speaker A: One day, that'll be somebody else's problem, but it's still your right. [00:28:24] Speaker C: If completing complex tasks typically follow, there's a meltdown. If independent homework is a struggle yesterday and today, don't let it surprise you. It's probably going to be a struggle tomorrow. Meeting that need and following that child's lead needs to be part of your routine. Don't let it take you by surprise. So it, it's, it's thinking before it's paying attention to and then figuring out. I'm, you know, these three homework nights are more difficult. So we're going to eat leftovers or a quick dinner. I'm not going to plan my gourmet high level cooking on a, you know, Thursday night when tests are Friday. So that becomes part of the weekly routine when I cook, when we eat leftovers. Right. If I'm taking the needs of the whole family and the kiddos into account as I'm setting up my expectations for how that dinner routine is going to go on and on and on and on and on and on. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Jessie, I super love this. I super love this. I love that you're talking about following the lead and need. And I think that, like you're saying is what makes a good routine because you're matching up everyone's needs, even if you don't even think of yourself as collaborating, even though you're not giving two choices, you're not making a deal or making a compromise here. Like, this. Is collaboration a good routine? Because it has taken all of those needs into account. And it's not just, yeah, follow the lead of your kids needs, but also meet your needs. If you're going to have to help a kid intensely with homework, then what are you going to do before you need to do that? To make sure you've got enough gas in the tank to get through the math homework right. I think, like, what tawna is saying, that is it. So practically speaking, when I think about doing this, it's okay, do I have enough? Am I reserving enough time for what needs to happen here? And I'm always thinking, okay, what's the end result? Like, what is the end point here? Okay, let's say it's the kid closing their eyes and drifting off to sleep. What I'll often say when we're talking about routines and bedtime is like, well, how much time does it take this specific kid to do that? And the way you're going to know is like, well, there's kind of a window of opportunity there of when your kid can close their eyes and drift off to sleep. But if you've got a lot of popping back up and asking for extra drinks of water and saying, I'm not tired, and guess what? That's included in the amount of time it's taking that kidde to feel tired and fall asleep. So I think we love the shock value of telling people that we start bedtime at like 06:00 p.m. at our house and they're like, oh, what? But like, our kids are falling asleep till 830 or nine. It's just that it takes, we've got ADhd in my house. We've got add. Like, it takes my busy brains in my house a long time to wind down, start to feel tired, and to let their minds drift off to sleep. I mean, that's even if we're using melatonin, y'all. So, like, I'm thinking about, okay, how long is that going to take? If it takes, literally, if I'm, you know, gnashing my teeth at how it took 2 hours and I lost all of my time to watch that show that Nick and I are watching together in the evening, like, why don't I just back up? Why don't I just start earlier? I don't have to take away my free time for that. So if I, if my kid wants to follow. If my kid is falling asleep, their window of opportunity is 830 or that's what, that's the amount of sleep they need is putting them around that time. I'm going to back that up to like 630 or six. And I'm going to, I'm going to think thoughtfully about like, what are the things in the right order, right? So it's like this helps them feel tired and if they're a little bit older and I mean, even, like, even if they're like mid elementary school, I will include them in this process. If you have a preschooler with an ounce of self awareness, you can even have those like, what do you love when you go to sleep? What are your favorite parts? What helps you feel sleepy and build that in together into the order of the way you're going to do things. Right. That's what I'm going to be thinking about. As we're building a routine like that. [00:33:19] Speaker C: I know that we could talk about bedtime for like three episodes because I have like 1 million things coming to mind. [00:33:28] Speaker A: We could do a whole year on. [00:33:30] Speaker C: We literally, we could probably write a. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Book about time journal going to bed. [00:33:36] Speaker C: You have said if things that I just don't want to, like, not double down, highlight. Because what I'm hearing come out of you, Jesse, is compassion and empathy and kindness and just like, basic consideration for the emotional and physical needs of your children. And again, I don't know why I'm hooked on this today. It's not catching you by surprise, obviously. I don't like to be caught by surprise. Can you all tell by how many times? I just want to kind of know what's coming because then we can set everybody up for success instead of that, like, ugh, frustration. So early in parenting, I'm about to date myself. Okay, all you young ends that are listening, y'all have, you know, streaming and the ability to watch something like the next day on Hulu. When I started parenting, we had exactly a vhs tape that we caught our shows on. There wasn't even a DVR yet, which is how you used to. [00:34:44] Speaker A: Messed up. [00:34:45] Speaker C: Because when the children are taking too long and your primetime show starts at nine and your vhs tape is full, it is so maddening to like, miss it, you know? So I do want to just say we don't. This little generation doesn't know how easy they have. It ain't nobody need to be Madden that Johnny is taking a little longer to fall asleep. Just xfinity stream that thing later or whatever. So we do have a little easier these days when it comes to those kinds of things. But work in as much time as you can on the regular so that when your things happen, you're not. Every single school night's not going to go off without a hitch. But think about if it happens. If you have five school nights and it happens three nights a week, there's three nights a week of predictability and routine and brains and bodies resting and being able to just go on autopilot and not have to be hyper vigilant and knowing what to expect. And we're building in good stuff to make us resilient and ready when things happen that are not the norm. And maybe I would say if you can switch into the mindset of seeing that, like, you're helping your child's brain and body develop and grow, because it can be more at rest within those rhythms and rituals, then we can respect maybe our kids that need that routine longer. So if you have a kiddo that has experienced trauma or loss or grief, the transitions of foster care or multiple placements or adoption, some of those loves might need pieces built into their routine because they are still making sense or repairing. Or it's in response to things that happened many, many, many years ago and over time, being helped. Like, helping them discover, like, why is it important for you to get up and go to the bathroom after you've already gone to bed? And. And mom and dad are paying attention to that in the past and it's helping you feel safe enough to go to sleep. Like, there are some of those things where it gives you the ability to help your child have insight into some of what their body is naturally wanting to do or needing to do in order to just be okay for the day. So, food. We could talk a lot about the need for routines and predictability around food. Like, just realize it's these, like, Maslow's hierarchy of need needs where routines and predictability are paramount to kiddos who've experienced adversity. Just don't like, pat yourself on the back if you're giving them a couple of days of predictability a week. Like, good job, you, mom and dad. Good job that they have some bit of predictability there. It's a gift. It's a gift to their family. It's a gift to you, it's a gift to your partner, your parenting partner. It's a gift to your children as much predictability, which is what routines do, they put that predictability in place is just a gift. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Let me add something. I think I've nulled out about this a little bit. But early on, I used to get kind of my panties in a wad because I would be like, I'm not as structured as everyone caricatures me as. [00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:38:34] Speaker A: But I am this way because I'm a parent. I'm a product of the kids I parent. I do this because I fiercely love my girls and I want them to feel safe in my care. And so it's, if you're hearing this and you're like, gosh, this is so not me. Like, yes, accept the grace that tawna is saying. Like, hey, adding something will help your kids. And I would add two more things. You love your kids, and it's okay to let them change you a little bit. Like, my kids have changed me. And I think it's become a beautiful thing. Like, whether I was always gonna be this way or whether in a different life around different people, maybe I would have been a fly by the seat of my pants girl. I don't know. But I'm a product of my daughters, and it has set everyone up to thrive in my family. And I'll say this too. I mentioned this window of tolerance for flexibility. It was shut when our kids were young. We could not stay out late. We could not deviate very much. We could not ask very much flexibility from our kids without experiencing a lot of quote unquote, behaviors that aren't super fun for parents to deal with. We're going into fifth and 9th grade now. And now after years and years and years, you know, I think we just hit the 13 year mark of our oldest in her homecoming day is what we call it at my house. 13 years in, I get to start working on widening that window of tolerance. So this summer, we've been staying up a little later and experimenting with that and maybe throwing in a spontaneous trip to go get ice cream in the evening or whatever, and nothing's falling apart. But maybe you need to hear me say today that that took 13 years of consistency and predictability before we could start widening that window. And I think my kids and my family are better for it. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that, Jessie. I think it's just a really good reminder of the long haul and the journey that this is. I can't tell you the number of times that we've heard parents say we tried routines. It doesn't work. And so if that's you, like, so much grace and compassion for where you are, and I wonder if you tried to give a checklist a couple times and they didn't just do it. So I wonder if you could take a step towards your kiddo, like, maybe they won't brush their teeth. So what would it look like to be playful and go up with your own toothbrush and brush your teeth while they're brushing their teeth, or they won't clean up. What would it look like to say, I bet I can clean up more toys than you, and let's race. What would it look like to say, you get the blue toys, I'll get the green ones. What would it look like to build in some playfulness and some togetherness into the routines to help support it? And you may have to do that. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but habits take about 21 days to form, and so you may have to do it for a while. Like Tawna said, three days out of five, you may be looking at a couple months of trying to build a routine. So don't try to do everything all at once, but start somewhere. Start with those pain points. Start at least processing it with a trusted friend, with your parenting partner. If you're parenting with a partner, start to just identify, okay, what could be the routines that might help? And then just start with something easy and small that's not too much outside of your own window of tolerance for the season. That would be my encouragement. Do you guys have any closing thoughts or encouragements about routines as we finish up? [00:42:31] Speaker C: Routine isn't just a schedule of a checklist. So that's just the thing. I'll hammer that again. It's like the way it's the operating manual of your family. That's pretty predictable. Early on, I homeschooled our older four kids when they were all young. So I was homeschooling mom and I read a book, which I will not give the title of, but it recommended sticky notes on big poster boards to help me manage the entirety of my day in 30 minutes increments. So I had four young children and myself and mo and I had an entire long hallway where I hung up these poster boards with sticky notes seven days a week for every 30 minutes. And everybody knew what they were supposed to be doing. That is not a routine. That is called hyper controlling. It was an absolute, absolute disaster. A disaster. I figured out what was right for us. Not what was right for me, what was right for us. And that was a major light bulb moment of what? So, Jesse, you are hitting it so beautifully from my perspective of, like, let those kids change you. Let them help you value things that. That maybe are something you didn't value and or release and change and let go of, something that maybe you hyper valued or were overly controlling about. So how can you be flexible and structured and nurturing so that you are building your kids window of tolerance to do the same? And routines, routines, routines. They're so good, and they can feel. They can feel like relationship if you let them. They don't have to feel like a task list. Routines feel like their relationship with you, period. [00:44:30] Speaker A: This is us. These are the things that our kids like autopilot, and they don't even know why they do it in this order. It's just like, it is the part of this is us, you know? In your family. [00:44:44] Speaker C: Yes. [00:44:45] Speaker A: I love that. I also have done. Let me say this in the context of one of my tips. I also have done the poster board with the sticky notes. [00:44:55] Speaker C: I may have recommended it to you 1 million years ago. Like, I don't know, maybe I got that idea from you. [00:45:01] Speaker A: I probably gave you that I do have one family member in particular, that the revealing in advance the knowing and the knowing specifics about the day was really important to this family member. And so in different ages and stages that looked different. I have done a velcro strip on the back of this person's door with laminated index cards that she got to illustrate where we put them in order as part of our bedtime routine for the next day. And it brought that kid felt safety to help, quote unquote, decide the order of her day the next day. And she could see when she would be eating, by the way, in the order of that. I've done sticky notes where, like, when in the summertime, things were changing a lot. There was the flexibility of unsticking and sticking a new thing on there and, like. But I would say every point in agent's stage that that kid was a part of that process, and that really, really gave a lot of, like, shared control, shared power, a sense of agency over what was happening in her day, which was really meaningful to this person. So. [00:46:24] Speaker C: So you did it. Follow their lead, which was not the mindset of what I was up to when I made all way schedule. [00:46:32] Speaker A: You were between Tawna and me. Like, there are different ways to do this as you follow the need. Right. And I would say my other piece of advice would be, think about the order of things. You want it to be the right order, but just because you're doing the right order doesn't mean that it can't be out of order. And what I mean when I say that is if bath time needs to happen right after school because it's sensory rich and calming and regulating and play do it right like an after an after school. Bath time is one of my top recommended tools. But like when can you take a burger out of the fridge for breakfast? Like Becca said, like great. That's awesome. If kids can make their own breakfast by taking leftovers, awesome. Like it doesn't always have to be the traditional order of things in order to be the right order for you. So I would encourage you to think creatively and collaboratively with your kids and your partner if you're parenting in a partnership as you create those things. [00:47:47] Speaker B: Such good tips. So many great things said I think, I hate to make it sound like there's three steps but I have three ideas in mind of an order. So I think number one, just start communicating more in advance. If you're listening to this and you're like this is not even in my world, just start communicating and see if that doesn't help. Dad will be home at 630. We're going over to the Smiths for dinner on Thursday. You have soccer practice on Saturday. Like just at first just start communicating. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Becca, can I jump in real quick? [00:48:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:19] Speaker A: I met a kid this summer that I became buds with and what helped this kid was to know this, then this, then this. And obviously as the day went forward those, this is, those things changed. But like that's all they can hold in their mind. And so the revealing in advance, like yeah, sometimes. And sometimes that's all a kid needs. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Try that with just any age kid. The next thing would be identifying those routines that are needed and depending on their age. You said it so many times, Jesse and Tana collaborating with them. So hey, after school has been tricky. I have a great idea. What if we do? You've called it this before, Jesse. After school spa day. Like we'll light a candle in the bubble bath. Like so building in that fun routine to add in that sensory experience. And then last but not least do things more than once. Like I mean that sounds silly to say but like do things more than once. Try things for a while with variations. As you get these routines kind of in place you're going to be able to adapt them even more to the needs of your kid and give yourself permission to change as your kids grow. Change as seasons change. Give yourself permission to keep iterating the different routines that are needed. We are very excited to keep talking about this idea. In our next episode we're going to touch on rituals which can often be routines, and it has a little bit more of these connecting, relationship focused strategies. So if you have liked what you've heard in this episode, keep listening to our next episode and we'll dive in even more. Thank you guys so much for all of your insights and compassion with this topic. [00:50:05] Speaker A: You know I love thanks. [00:50:11] Speaker B: We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, the best way to support us going forward is to subscribe. 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