[E212] Three Friends You Need in Your Life

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign to the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. Hello, everyone. This is Jesse Farris. I'm here with my buddies, Tona Ottinger and Becca McKay. Say hey, guys. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Hello. Hey. [00:00:26] Speaker C: Good to see you. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Demanding that you greet our people. We're here today. We want to talk about friendship. So I've got a great crew to talk about this with. We want to talk about the three types of friends that you need in your life. Um, you know, I think maybe our title says the three Friends. You probably need more than three friends, but some of you might not even be feeling like you have three right now. I don't know. Have you guys ever been in a season where you're like, do I have friends? [00:00:54] Speaker B: Yes, I sure have. [00:00:57] Speaker C: I. No, no, no. [00:01:01] Speaker B: There's always people around. [00:01:03] Speaker C: Let me say this, which I don't think I would have ever shared on the podcast before. I think I was a bridesmaid 13 times. So I think that the three is an encouragement to me that you don't have to. You don't have to stay in touch with 13 people all the time because that's kind of impossible. And it's okay to, like, narrow down. And then for. For others of us, it's a. We're expanding. [00:01:26] Speaker A: I love that. I mean, I've shared my, like, pushing to full time work hours with y' all this year. And I mean both professionally because I've been working with you in those hours, but also our listeners on the podcast and just how. I mean, it's really cut into my free time. I don't have a lot of free time. Most of the free time I have, I'm using for a volunteer role that I. That I serve in in Memphis. And so my time with friends has really taken a hit. It's like, do I have friends? I have been asking in this season. It's like, if it's not Tona and Becca, then it's maybe nobody. I don't know. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Right? [00:02:01] Speaker A: If you're listening to this, you're like. [00:02:03] Speaker B: I gotta have some work besties, please. [00:02:08] Speaker A: So I was thinking. I was thinking way back to the beginning of my parenting journey. And I had just met Tana, actually, and I remember Tana introducing me to some of her friends. And I remember. I don't know if you remember this, Tana. You said, this is my new friend Jesse. She doesn't have any heart friends. [00:02:31] Speaker B: I said something so dramatic like that. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yes, you did. [00:02:34] Speaker B: None. [00:02:34] Speaker A: It was validating that you said that it was because I was in the season where I didn't. I was a brand new adoptive mom and I didn't have good friends who had adopted that were in local, in my circle that I was spending regular time with. And I didn't. I felt like nobody got me, nobody quite understood, you know, what I was facing. And I was trying to push it like that square peg, round hole situation of like I was trying to like match up my experiences with my friends with newborns. And it just wasn't the same with my. And I brought home Rhett at 18 months. So, you know, I still had a toddler, but it wasn't the same. So anyways, it was just kind of a season of isolation. And even though it's a funny, dramatic way of introducing me, like I was looking for heart friends. [00:03:29] Speaker B: You're like poor, poor Jesse, you guys. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Hey, friends. Feel sorry for Jessie. [00:03:35] Speaker B: She's pity the sweet, beautiful, lovely lady here that needs some people in her corner. [00:03:40] Speaker A: I think what is fun is that Tana has become a heart friend for me. So thank you, thank you for bringing me into your same. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Same, same. [00:03:49] Speaker A: We wanted to talk to you whether you are like Becca and have been in 14 weddings as the best friend or whether you might be like I was just sitting in a season then or maybe even now where due to your circumstances you're feeling kind of alone. And what, what do we need as we go through life? So we've kind of identified three types of friends. Becca, why don't you tell us kind of our overview. Becca is our, our like synthesizer of information overview gal. [00:04:24] Speaker C: Kicking it off. So we were talking before we hit record just about the idea that you've got to have community, you've got to have friends, and it's always good to have people that are in your same season. So, you know, I joked that I was in 14. So as we talk about these three types of friends, I definitely do not always feel like I've had all three of these represented. And you can feel really isolated if you get st into one of these zones. So the one of the zones, one of the friend zones that we want to have is people that are in our same spot, similar life seasons, similar experiences, similar situations, people that can kind of go, yeah, I get it. Me too. But you also want to have people that are a step ahead of you and those are your friends that can really encourage you. Like it gets better. It's not always going to feel like this or can give advice sometimes we really Do Sometimes we can get over adviced, but also sometimes you really need that person who can go, hey, Becca, here's what I think you're not thinking of, or I think you need to think about it this way. You need those people that are a step ahead of you to really encourage you, mentor you, bring you along, even just give you a little bit of vision for the future. Like, it can be different. It won't always be like it is now. And then it's always good to have people that you're investing in who are a step behind you. Think about the friends who are just a season or two back, whether that be, um, as a mom, maybe your friends that are. That don't have kids yet or that are single, or if you're a mom of older kids, someone who's got a younger kiddo. And so just that. That person the step behind. So thinking about who's my side by side in my same season, who's a step ahead and who's a step behind. And we think if you have those three types of friends, that's like, gonna really be encouraging to you. It's gonna help combat some of that isolation that we can all feel, even if we've been in 14 weddings and can really bring a rich the to the kind of friendship experience. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Well, let's start with maybe. I don't know. Where do y' all want to start? Let's start with the step ahead. I'd love Tana. Would you just kick us off? Tana is my step ahead friend. She's my friend who, you know, I've got kids in high school and about to be middle school right now, and Tana's youngest kids are in middle school. And so it's been so valuable to me to have friends like Tana that are kind of have been there, done that, but just. Just had been there, done that. So they haven't forgotten the information. They can pass it along. And I'd love to know kind of what's been your experience with moms that have been a step ahead of you? [00:07:02] Speaker B: I think that is. It's a good question. And what's coming to mind is this idea of what does it mean to be a step ahead? Yeah, that's good. I think that. I think it could be maybe parenting in a, like an age range ahead, or it could be a step ahead in like, understanding something and applying that information. [00:07:26] Speaker A: So good. [00:07:27] Speaker B: Or maybe they are parenting maybe a specific need that you would like to pick their brain about and see if you're kind of headed on the right track. So I think even in the step ahead, I think there's a bit of complexity because it might not be age. [00:07:48] Speaker A: That's true. [00:07:49] Speaker B: It could be a little bit more like, what are you thinking about? Or I know you've been really in the throes of considering this. So a few just real relevant things that come to mind for me, just like in that I'm just over the last, probably 10 years. I mean, a couple, maybe a month ago or so, Mo and I were out to dinner with a couple that is an age range ahead, which means their oldest children are one age range ahead of some of our oldest children. So we're walking through a couple of things and we just ask them a few pointed questions. You know, what do you think about this? What advice would you give us? What do you think we should be? I like to say, like, what do you think I should be thinking about? Or what do you think? Like, what would you suggest that we're careful to consider? So sort of asking some open ended questions like that and just seeing what comes to mind for them. And so we had a great. I mean, it wasn't why we even went to lunch, but I didn't want to miss an opportunity because they were safe enough for us to give a few of the details to. And so we just sought their input and advice and it was, it was good. I mean, they definitely brought light to some things that I want to be careful to take into consideration as we're supporting our kids, you know, transitioning. So we're asking a lot of questions about, like, when your older kids, you know, start dating a significant other or get married. How did you, you know, how did you acclimate them into family life? What decisions did you make? So anytime I'm at a transitional stage, I want to just pick the brains of the people who've walked that transition. And then I can think about maybe it is. I mean, it could be a new diagnosis. And again, the parent could literally be your exact same age. But they've been processing that diagnosis for a season longer than you have. So what does it mean to X, Y and Z? I mean, Jessi, I called you, I mean, it was months ago, but I called you. And I have kids older than you and maybe I'm your season ahead in something, but I was like having a really hard time supporting our middle schoolers and your oldest is just out of middle school. I've gone through middle school four times already, but I needed like specific input from you. On things I might need to think about, because I was thinking about that season of one of our kids, and you had just walked through that season with one of yours. So I think this idea of being ahead, I think we can pull it apart a little bit. And so maybe my general encouragement here would be, like, none of us have it all figured out. [00:10:35] Speaker A: Amen. [00:10:36] Speaker B: And every child brings this beautiful new complexity to every season they are walking through. So be humble and open and, like, be a learner. Like, never stop being a learner, I think, is what I would say. Then there's this one. I mean, I think it was probably one of the most profound experiences for us. It was years and years ago, and I'm certain we've shared with the listeners, at least in bits and pieces, that we went through a really long season of medical care and intervention for one of our kiddos, where we were in the hospital for, like, over 250 days in one calendar year. And there were two women who were absolutely older than me that just loved me and us in such a tangible way that when I think back over that season, I literally do not know how I would have done it without them. And one of them made us dinner twice a week and put it, like, in an outside refrigerator that we had in a building that she could access. And we would just go home and there would be dinner made with a word of encouragement. And she was a season ahead. And the way she was caring for me was in this very instrumental way of feeding our family yummy food. And I felt so loved and cared for her, and she had time she could do that. And then there was another one who was, again, older in age, and she would stop in and listen to me cry and, like, give me words of encouragement and, like, see, like, speak over me things she saw in me and speak over me words of hope and write me scripture verses and put her hands on our baby and pray and just loved on me in a way that, like, people my age didn't have the capacity to do because they were running carpool. They literally couldn't be physically present in the hospital the way this woman could just show up unexpectedly. I mean, I'm not saying that my friends in my age didn't do that. They did. We felt loved by them. But this was just sort of next level because she had availability and margin in her life to care for me in a very, like, sweet and tender way. So I am so grateful, incredibly grateful for. For mentoring women who have poured into me and. And loved us really, really, really, really well, yeah, I cannot say enough about it. [00:13:11] Speaker A: I love that. [00:13:12] Speaker B: I do think, because most of them have come to us specifically in our circumstance. We were in a church community, and so we had access to women who were a little older. I think I could see how it might be difficult to find those women of care if you're not maybe in proximity to them. So I just want to, like, speak that into the air. If they're like, I don't know where those loving older women are. I just want to say, like, I did find them in our faith community in proximity. They were there and available and wanted to love on our family that way. So if that's not your lived experience, I just want to say I can see how it might be kind of hard to go find the sweet, lovely ladies. Maybe they're at a sewing circle or at a quilter's guild or, you know, there's probably a lot of social spaces that those women are volunteering and working. But you may have to try to find proximity to them, right? To. To. To find them. [00:14:07] Speaker C: I think when I think about this type of friend, this is the friend I gravitate towards the most of the three types. I'm always gravitating towards people that are a step ahead of me, which I don't think is a. I don't think it's a bad thing, but I need to be really aware of it because sometimes I can get to, like. Sometimes it can be too much. That's me. That's my issue to, like, process through. But sometimes I can do, like, too much of. Give me advice, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me from all these different people that are a step ahead. And sometimes I just need to be where I am and be okay with where I am and what that means and what that brings. But this is the type of friend that I gravitate towards the most because I do always want to learn and grow. And so, and this has been not just as a mom, but in general, I gravitate towards people who have experiences I haven't had yet. I want to learn from people. I want to absorb what they know. I want to. I want to follow along in footsteps and kind of hear and process. This type of friend, to me, I think. I think gives me a lot of, like, practical, like, this is the friend that I'm going to talk to about. This is what I'm trying. What do you think? This is what I'm doing. Worried about. How can I, you know, can you encourage me? And so I just think these Friends can be really, really helpful if you're finding yourself in a season of anxiety or confusion. And. And there's been so many over the last six months. There's been so many new things that I've walked through and I've loved. We walked through. If you go back a year ago, we walked through. About this time we were starting the process of applying to be an adoptive. I wanted to talk to all my friends who had done that throughout the years and heard their experiences and what it was like for them. I wanted to hear all those things. And then once we were a waiting family, I wanted to hear what that was like for my friends that had been through that before and what was that season like? And then we did not expect to welcome a kiddo home who would be in the NICU for so long. And so then there was a group of people that had been through that and had had words of wisdom and advice. And so I just think I gravitate towards this type of friend, and I'm grateful for the people who have taken time to talk with me. And I'm someone who processes. I process out loud, and I process by repeating myself, which annoys my husband, Rico, to no end. But I want to talk to Jesse about what it's like to be a waiting family. And Tana and my friend Carissa and my friend, like, I. And my friend Liz. Like, I want to hear different experiences and kind of see what's in common, what's different. And, oh, yeah, I didn't. I felt that differently than Tana. But on this thing, I really resonated. And, man, it was really helpful when Carissa said it this way. So I think that there's. Yeah, I just think that I'm someone who really enjoys this type of friendship, and I'm in a season where there's a lot of new coming at me. And so I've appreciated the friends who have given me their time and been willing to process things even I think as a waiting family, there's Jesse and I processed probably on a weekly basis what that was like because it was so real to me and there was a lot of patience and grace with me. So if you are the friend who's a step ahead, thank you for being that person to your friends. And I think that patience and that grace and that encouragement is just really critical. [00:17:34] Speaker A: So I want to ask you specifically, Becca, because I know even through this little season you've just gone through. I didn't mean to say little, as in, like, dismiss this time, like this short Burst of NICU time. [00:17:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:47] Speaker A: You were even finding advice on social media boards and groups that you were joining. What do you feel like is. Is there a difference between the friends you were making in those groups and the friends you have IRL in real life or. Yeah, you know what? [00:18:05] Speaker C: That's a really good question. I think that. Yeah. So one of the first things whenever we heard about our baby girl that my husband and I did was we found a micro preemie Facebook group. And you can only join if your kiddo was born, I think less than 26 or 28 weeks. I can't remember exactly. And that provided a lot of. How do I want to say it? Like, mental or cognitive? Like, there's a lot of knowledge and information that's coming at you in the nicu. And actually what was. Oh, man, I want to say this, I want to be honest, but I don't want to make anybody feel bad who's in my life. But there was a lot of people who wanted to connect me to a real person who had been a NICU mom. So I was getting a lot of, you should meet my sister, my cousin, my friend, my so and so. So I was getting a lot of text messages from no shame guys. [00:18:56] Speaker A: I was one of those people and. [00:18:57] Speaker C: I was really overwhelmed by like, I don't necessarily have the capacity to like, introduce myself and become friends with a per. Like, and that person has one experience. What I liked about the online group was that it was very much the online group is some people use it to really find community and they post like weekly updates on their baby and people comment and give encouragement. Because of our situation with privacy, we didn't do that. But I would post anonymously about like a medical thing. Hey, the doctors are talking about this diagnosis. What does that mean? And people like you get kind of a good breadth of information from different experiences. So you get, you know, 10 comments and they are all, well, this is what it looked like for me. Well, this is what it looked like for me. So for the knowledge, like, for the questions, that was really helpful. It helped my husband and I through some really scary conversations because there was a lot of hopeful stories, a lot of, yeah, that's what they said to us. But we saw it grow this way. So it was more of like that. That information piece that was needed. It was helpful. I did have a few people that I talked to who had been NICU parents and that was helpful to me. That was people that I already knew before I had a pre existing relationship with them. And I was able to like reconnect with them about nicu and that was helpful to me because we were already acquaintances, at least if not deep heart friends. And so I didn't feel like I needed to introduce myself. My name is Becca. I grew up in Russia. I have a twin my husband and I adopted. There was like this element of like making friends that I didn't have capacity for. So the online group gave me the encouragement that I needed without the requirement of me to be really vulnerable. And then I relied on my. My pre existing friends, I think for some of the more vulnerable. I also think it's a personality thing. I think some. I think my twin sister could have been in my exact situation and she might have reached out to all of those text message people that were being. That were being introduced to her and she might have wanted to call each of them. And so I think that. That there's a person. Sorry, I'm talking in circles. There's a personality piece to it. But for me there was elements of. It was sweet of people, but there was some pressure of I don't want to introduce myself to your sister who I'm never going to meet in real life. I don't really feel like doing that right now. Yeah. [00:21:18] Speaker A: It allows you to kind of short circuit. [00:21:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:20] Speaker A: What. And probably listeners are identifying with that. I mean, it's kind of the same way when you go to a conference or a retreat. Some of you go to make meet friends and you all. You walk away with like a whole bunch. Some of you are like, I only go with my friends and talk to my friends. So it's different personalities. But I, I love hearing that. Just kind of what you can get from each of those spaces and realms. And it kind of brought us into the same season too, because some of those people on your message boards or Facebook groups or whatever were in that same season. That's right. So what do you feel like is the value of having friends that are in the same season as you? [00:22:04] Speaker B: It's interesting. I'm processing what you're saying, Becca, about your personality to lean towards maybe wanting the ones that are a season ahead. I find that I really need me too people. [00:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Which is maybe what I would classify as the people that are right in the middle of it with you. Like, I need to feel seen and I'm not alone. And you're in the middle of this too. And like you. So I really. My closest ones I think are me too people. And I want to have a good number of those and Or I find myself trying to make those connections, which might be the obnoxious part of what I'm doing. Right. So I've had to talk about this with some of my close friends. Like, we actually are living really different lives. We're not living the exact same life. Like, it's okay if we have different experiences. [00:22:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Because I have found I really want to those people that are doing it with me and that we can really, really, really align in that way. And I think it makes us feel like we're literally not alone and that there's other people experiencing this moment in time and history with these circumstances, in these situations in a similar way. So I really deeply value that very authentic right now community where we're working it out in real time. We do not have all the answers. It is messy, but we're cur Curious and figuring it out together that that layer of friendship's a high, high value for me. [00:23:35] Speaker A: What do you. What do you feel like you're missing? With all of the friends a step ahead, I think you started to touch on it, Becca. [00:23:43] Speaker C: Well, I think I always. I approach life as I want to solve this problem. So whenever I feel any uncomfortable, sad, hard, hurt feeling, I'm looking to fix it. And I think that that a me too friend forces you to be more present with where you are and just accept that reality and live in it and experience it and feel the good and the hard and all of it. And so I don't think I'm drawn to that. I think I need that. I think I need that friend who can be. Yeah. We also got two hours of sleep last night. We're also exhausted. And we don't have to have an answer on how to fix it. It's just where we are right now. So I think it's slows you down. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Well, which, Rebecca, you were sharing. And I was literally remembering I told you I was sitting at that lunch, and I had to say to myself, it would be really good to ask them a few questions. Like, I had to tell myself to be a learner. [00:24:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:44] Speaker B: That is not my natural bent. My natural bent is to be like, we're just gonna figure this thing out. Let's go. Not to be like, hey, what are y' all figuring out up there? What have you already figured out ahead of me? I'm not naturally so curious about the wisdom that can be given to me. I feel much more like we got this. We're going to shoot from the hip and just do it in real time. So I feel like I'VE had to learn. [00:25:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:08] Speaker B: To slow down and seek wisdom ahead. [00:25:11] Speaker A: I love that. [00:25:12] Speaker B: So I do think I loved that you said it really is very much about maybe our orientation and personality. Jesse, how like what's going on? What are you thinking? I want you to be able to speak into that. What's on your mind? [00:25:22] Speaker A: I was thinking about the Venn diagram. You know, if I were to put the those two types of people. We've already talked about the two types of friends together. The thing that I'm going to look for that they both have in common is that I'm going to let them know me really well because I think that friend that's in is a step ahead. And I loved how you pulled out how that can mean so many different things. Tana, that's so true. I think that friend that's a step ahead. I want to ask them things like what am I not seeing? What do you know about me that you can tell me right now? Like what's the truth about my circumstance that I can't see? And I can trust that because that person knows me and loves me and is for me and with me that they can, they can pour encouragement or challenge into my life in a way that the people that are side by side with me, they just can't see it. They don't have the perspective. I think for the step ahead. I'm looking for perspective. I'm looking for, you know, when I'm not getting any sleep, I want the parent a step ahead of me to be like, it will not always be like this. Right. Although I need the me too friends to be like, yeah, I didn't either. And it sucks so bad, you know, like you don't only want people that are like, oh, it'll get better, Becca, you know. [00:26:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:44] Speaker A: So yeah, I think I'm thinking of medical diagnoses. I'm thinking of all of those things where the friend to step ahead in understanding or in the diagnosis or in the the circumstance in life can be like, oh, you know, I'm thinking of the time, Tana, that I was talking about my two year old chewing her nails and you were like, did you know that's not a normal did you know that's not a normal behavior for 2 year olds that could be a sensory need. And I'm like, like I had no idea because I don't know what I'm doing, you know, like. But you had experienced that sensory need before so you had some advice to give. I wasn't even seeing it versus that Friend that, you know, I was just talking on Marco Polo with a friend last week that I was like, can we share more teenager stories? Because they make me laugh out loud when you share them, but I don't feel that way when they're happening to me. So we'll just trade and laugh at each other stories and it. That's just valuable in any season you're in. I think what's hard for me is that same season friends change a lot for me because you change schools or, you know, maybe your friends you had as you were a young single are changing as you're now having kids or your friends became parents before you and so it was fine when they were all babies, but now their kids are in school and your kids are still at home. Or, you know, those seasons change and. Or maybe you're all in elementary school together and then you kind of all go different directions or choose different things for middle and high school. It's. It's weird because it's both easy and hard for me to have friends that transition like that. I grew up moving a lot as a child, so I'm very kind of like, I think it's part of what makes me very present minded. If you're in front of me, then you're my friend. And if you live in a different city, it's very hard for me to hold on to you. Like I, I have to make. That's the hard part for me is being intentional to hold on to friends if they're not in the same season. I think the older I'm getting in, in my age now, I. I'm realizing, like, oh, I'm going to practice holding on to some friends. Even though, like you said, Tana, our lives don't match up anymore. Maybe they used to, but they don't now. And I still want to invest in this friendship, but it's not quite the same as having a same season me too friend. So being mindful to put my head up every now and then and look around and be like, wait, hold on a second. Who are my me too friends? I think that's what I'm experiencing right now is like, oh, wait, where are they? Do I have them? Let me make sure. So, you know, trying to, trying to figure that out and get it balanced and, and look, look around with our last few minutes. I'd love to talk about what are the val. What are the values of finding friends a step behind you again? That step can be defined a lot of different ways. But how has that enriched your life? [00:30:02] Speaker B: I think that to me, it helps give me some perspective and even be a bit reflective and have, interestingly enough, even hope in a different kind of way. So one of my dearest and longest friends is not in proximity to me. We haven't lived in the Same City for 25 years, and we didn't go through some seasons together. She did not get married. She has started her family much later through adoption. So she's in the same season as me with our younger crew, but not with the older ones. And so I would say, age wise, we're the same, but, like, in these seasons of life, we're different. And I actually think keeping her close to me was really healthy for me because it kept me from like, being maybe drowning in my own current circumstances because I was able to, like, keep perspective on, you're not in a bubble, you know, like, there's just. It kind of wakes you up in some ways and gets you outside of yourself, keeps you from getting, like, maybe super self absorbed. Like, I think there's some really good stuff about having people that are not walking out exactly what you're walking out at the same time and allowing them to know you. To your point, Jack, like, Jesse, like, you know me well enough to know I'm going through this. You haven't gone through it. But what do you caution me to be thinking about as I'm walking through something? I think it takes a special kind of person to be able to give advice to something they haven't walked through. But I would even be looking, you know, to her to speak into some. Some cautionary things, like not letting me lose myself entirely through seasons of motherhood or that kind of thing. And then I think passing down to people who are walking similar roads after you is its own kind of really, really, really good thing. I think we're wired to live, you know, intergenerationally. Like, I think there's wisdom and goodness, and I think we're supposed to be doing that as people. Like, we're supposed to be passing down story and wisdom and experience to the generations below us. And I think when we participate in that kind of community, I think we're, like, doing what we're supposed to do as people. So I think it can be really fulfilling in ways that you might not expect it to be fulfilling. So if you are not passing down, I would say you might be missing something that would really bring you a lot of joy and help you feel fulfilled. [00:32:45] Speaker C: I would agree with that kind of, like, purpose or, like, it gives direction a little bit sometimes. I have already shared that I'm usually the step behind friend. So I'm thinking of it more from that perspective. I actually find it hard to muster up the energy to find those friends and invest in them. I'm not great at it, and I think it is something that is important to try to do. And I think of the people that invested in me when I was the step behind friend and I think of how, like, my marriage is better because when I was single, my friends invited me into their lives and let me see different marriages and what it looked like to go through the normal marriage things and what real life looks like when it's not just all sunshine and rainbows. And I think that I have a better marriage because people were willing to do that with me. And so it's important to. I think it's important and it's valuable. Also, I think all three types of these friendships are mutually beneficial. Yeah, there's some. Some of my. Some of my sweet moments in the last several years have been younger friends who were able to come over and dog sit because they had the flexibility to do that. And that was fun for me to get to know them and for them to be in my life. And I feel like they help me stay connected to the trends and what's new and what's happening in the world. And then on the flip side, like, they helped, like, you know, do things that I allowed us to travel and do things that we wouldn't have been able to do. So there's like a mutual benefit to the friendship. It wasn't like, I'm giving, giving, giving, and you're giving me nothing back. It was just we're bringing different things to each other. And I may be giving you perspective when you're talking about this season, but you're also giving me the gift of like, investing in me and my needs and my season. So I think all three of the types are mutually beneficial. So I think this one is the one that's hard for me, but it's so important. And I've seen it from the other side. Like, I've benefited from the people that were willing to invest the energy. Memphis is a place a lot of people come and go. So there's always new people moving here for internships or new jobs or new opportunities. And there's a lot of transient people come for a couple years, they move on. And so there was a season where I felt like I was really good at this and I was really investing in the new people. And then I got kind of Burnt out. And so then there's been seasons where I haven't. So I also think with any of these types of friendships, it's not like a report card. It's not like you get an A if you have all three. If not, sorry, you get a D minus. But it's, hey, these are the three types. Like, do a little, we always talk about this. Do these little quick self assessments. Where am I? Am I really missing an opportunity to invest in someone who's a season behind right now? Maybe I am. And maybe that would be something good to keep my eyes open for and to make those little investments. And I really appreciate what you said, Jesse, of holding on to friends through seasons. It is hard to do that no matter which type of friendship you started out as. It's hard to hold on to friends in adulthood. It's hard to stay invested and committed. So I appreciated that reminder, even thinking about all these types. [00:35:55] Speaker A: I am the classic enneagram to advice giver. So I love, I love my friends who come to me for advice. I love when people may be a step behind, whatever that might mean. Approach me for advice. I think it's one of the things that makes it fun to do. This podcast too is like thinking about all of you listeners and the camaraderie we have. Either you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh yeah, I'm a step ahead of you, Jess. I know, you know, it's, you're going to get some sleep, Becca, don't worry. You know, like, they're listening to us talk. They're listening to a, you know, Tana and Jesse and Becca thinking, I've been there. Or, you know, you're in the same season with us, or you're a step behind thinking, like, what can I learn? I, I guess I want to say the times that's been most beneficial when people have done that for me. They've just invited me into their lives. It didn't have to be like some giant curriculum they did with me or like a big, like weekly meeting or anything like that. It was just somebody willing to have me over for coffee or like take me along to go grocery shopping with them when I had the capacity, but they didn't in their time or just, just brought me alongside of them in life and let me pepper them with questions or just observe how they did things or let me eat dinner with their family. That was so valuable to me. And so I think that's the thing I have to keep reminding myself of now is like, like it's okay if I don't have, like, a giant curriculum to teach people. We do, actually. It's called Cultivate Connection. And you're welcome to sign. Just sign up for the next round of it. But. But in my friendships, it's really just bringing people alongside me and letting them see how I do things. I have. I have friends that will say, like, how would you have done that? And I think a lot of times what we need to hear is, I would have done it the same exact way. You're doing great. Right? Like, I. I know that's what Tana did for me. You would be like, hey, you're asking the right questions. You have the right information. Like, you would. [00:38:09] Speaker B: It's that. [00:38:10] Speaker A: It's that instilling the confidence in ourselves that we have what we need, right? And we need. Everybody needs somebody that it's like, just stay the course. You're doing great. Stick with it. And that's been so valuable for me to receive. And I think that's something that I'm always trying to pass on to other people. It's maybe like the student pastor and me, I. That's. You may not know. That's what I wanted to do when I was. When I grew up as a college student. And now when I look back on it, it was like, oh, actually, I think I just have always loved pouring into people. So, anyways, well, thank you guys for thinking through this with me. And as we're kind of coming out of this conversation to land the plane, I'd love to know what's, you know, what's inspiring you in your next season of friendship after this conversation. [00:39:03] Speaker B: That's a sweet question. I think something that's just rolling around as we're kind of processing this, and I'm processing this real time in this moment. So just bear with me for a second. Is, again, I'm going to go back to, like, what does it mean to be in different seasons? Because I think that it's not always going to be quite that easy to distinguish. Right. And I kind of do a little bit of a. Like, age is just a number, right? And it really is about circumstances and situations and, like, the three of us are different ages, but we're going through seasons of certain kinds of things simultaneously and other things in different. Different seasons. Right. So I. I am really drawn to the idea of, like, is the person, an emotionally safe person who is willing to be vulnerable and willing to hold your vulnerabilities. And then to your point, a little bit, Jesse, willing to sort of Say the good and hard things. Ask the next question. Like, I want the people close to me to be the ones that are willing to ask the next question. And y' all know what I mean, because y' all are those people. Ask the next question. And so I feel inspired by that. And then there have been seasons when you started and said, have there been seasons when you felt like you didn't. You wondered if you had friends? Yes, I remember those seasons, and they were seasons of young motherhood when I didn't have the people around me that I felt like were those people. I just explained, they weren't willing to ask the next question. They didn't feel emotionally safe for me. We were trying to make a lot of changes. Those people were not. We were in a growth mindset. They were in a fixed mindset. I was lonely, and I started pulling back and. And I was thinking and praying and wondering and being curious and had a little notepad with me. This is before I could put notes in a phone. And I started paying attention to the people that approached me and were kind and tender and, like, showed a little interest in care. And I was surprised. I remember the three names I wrote down on that piece of paper, and I decided that those were the people that I felt like in. If I took the initiative, there might be something more to this relationship. So I committed to initiating. I didn't wait to be initiated on. I took initiative, and a couple of those ended up being, like, really beautiful friendships for me during that season. One of them I stay in touch with. Two of them I do not, But I know we were mutually beneficial to each other during that season. So I'm inspired by the idea that we have to take initiative. Friendship doesn't just happen. It just doesn't happen. I think we all think it does, but that is not reality. So we have to practice intention and vulnerability. And maybe. I mean, one of them I walked up to and said, hey, I'm just going to be really vulnerable. I'm a little lonely right now. And you've always been, like, super sweet and super kind, and I could really use a friend just to go have coffee with. Would you. Do you have any time in the next month to have coffee? She got emotional and started crying, and she was like, I would love nothing more to get to know you better. And, like, we started a friendship that was literally a safe haven for me for a long time. So just maybe take some initiative, and you might be surprised by who's literally right there, literally in your proximity. Or go, go Find where they might be. Take some initiative of put yourself out there. Sign up for a sewing club or a knitting club or a cooking class or a volunteer opportunity or, you know, ask people. I also. I'm gonna get on a soapbox. Give me a second. People don't also ask people very good questions. Okay, this is what I have found out, that people don't always ask other people very good questions. So you might have somebody sitting next to you on the bleachers at a track meet that if you ask them two thoughtful questions, something really wonderful could blossom there in terms of friendship. So be the person that asks the people the next good question. And you just never know what might happen. That's. That's my encouragement. [00:43:42] Speaker C: I think I'll end where we started. You asked, you know, have you ever had a season where you didn't feel like you had friends? And I joked, no, because I have all these, like, people have always been drawn to me, whatever. But as I'm listening and thinking and processing the season I'm in right now, I don't have time. My time is given to our little peanut and my husband and trying to keep things moving somewhat hobbling along. And so I think that what is inspiring me friendship wise in this season is friends that I know give grace. Friends that I know don't have a lot of expectations on me. Friends that are letting me be where am. So I think those are the friends that I'm gonna hang on to because they know, you know, I am somebody who, on my drive home from work, I have kind of a list of people that I call. And in this season, I haven't been doing that a lot, but when I pick up the phone, it's okay. That time has passed. Like those friendships have been. They've weathered some things, They've weathered some seasons. And then I have appreciated in this season, this. The friends who have continued to check in. Hey, I haven't heard from you. How are you? Instead of, well, you must not care about me because you didn't text. You know, so there's just a lot of grace. I think in this season. It is isolating and lonely and hard. So I don't want, you know, I joked about the. No, I've never. [00:45:04] Speaker A: Of. [00:45:05] Speaker C: Yes, of course. We've all felt isolated and lonely at times. And I think, yeah, that's me right now. So I think it's holding on to the friends who don't expect too much from me when I'm doing my best and trusting that those friendships are deep enough and Wide enough and long enough, and then appreciating the people who have checked in, appreciating the people who continue to check in. I think that's what's inspiring me right now, is just those friendships that feel safe enough for some time and space and for it to not become a thing. Those friendships have meant a lot to me right now. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Good thoughts, guys. I was thinking about how when we had Jamie Finn on, she was describing that she basically created the community that she needed herself. And Tana, that was kind of my takeaway from this conversation, too, is just like, everybody's waiting for someone to start something. Everyone's waiting for someone to reach out to them. Like, we all think everybody else has that going on for them. No. No one else does. I've heard this on countless podcasts. This is not a new idea. We're all waiting for someone to reach out to us. So be the person. Like Tana's saying, ask the next question. I was thinking as. As we were having this conversation of three, people literally popped to mind that I just get so much life from being with them. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna line something up, and it's okay. If it takes all spring to get together with these three people, I'm. I'm gonna just do it. And you know what? I bet that's gonna be life giving for them, too. [00:46:44] Speaker B: A hundred percent it will, Jesse. 100%. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, if you're a dad and you're listening and you've made it this far, first of all, thanks. We love all the dads that are listening to the Empowered to Connect podcast. And I know we're kind of speaking from a mom point of view, and I know friendships with women can be different than friendships with guys, but I just want to tell you, dads, this is possible. I have seen dads pour into other dads. I have seen dads who are me too. Dads that are texting or reaching out or grabbing wings with their friends just to talk about life when seasons are rough or when seasons are great. And, man, to be able to be a dad, that's pouring into a younger dad or a younger guy, that's so, so valuable. So if you've made it this far into the podcast, thank you. And also, thanks for being the dad that's gonna. That's gonna go first, right? We all get to be that kind of friend that's gonna go first. So thanks, guys. Thanks for being my friend, and thanks, listeners, nurse, for hanging with us. It feels like we are friends with you. When we see you at conferences and retreats and you come up to us and you say, I listen to the podcast, it's like we're talking with you. These are conversations with you. [00:48:09] Speaker C: You. [00:48:09] Speaker A: So thanks for including us in your laundry, or your drive, or your walk or run, whatever's going on in your life today. Hope you have a great day and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Rich Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together.