[E195] How Jamie Finn Found (and Created) Community

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Empowered to Connect podcast, where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families, and our communities. All right, we're here with Jamie Finn and I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Jamie, tell me a little bit about yourself and your family and kind of what you do in the world. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so happy to be with you, Jesse. Thanks for having me. I am primarily, you know, wife to Alan and mom to my seven kids, which is definitely a sentence that I never thought that I would say. Seven was not in the plan. But I'm foster adoptive biological mom to my seven kids, and then I lead an organization called Foster the Family, which practically serves foster parents upon placement and then works to really gather foster parents together in a supportive community, in support groups and special events. And then I'm an author. I love to just share about foster care. We stepped into foster parenting ten years ago and really just had a one kid, one time kind of plan, and now it's a major part of our lives, obviously, in our home. We have five kids who've joined our home through foster care and adoption, but it's also the space within I work and speak and advocate, and so it's a huge part of our stories. And I just love to talk to like-minded people about foster care and hopefully encourage foster and adoptive parents. So happy to be with you today to do that. [00:01:54] Speaker A: We're so glad to have you. I've read Foster the Family and just personally found so much encouragement out of it as an adoptive mom and as a human. I think maybe just humans could read this book and also just benefit from your journey. You share a lot about kind of what you learned in those years of being a foster mom. Tell me a little bit like chicken or egg. Did you kind of write this book and form this ministry out of your experiences? What came first? [00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So after becoming a foster parent, it's a funny story where someone asked me to write something. I put it online and it's like, in the movies, it's like millions of people had seen it by the next day, and it was like, oh, my goodness. So all of a sudden, there were people sort of watching me- Brand new in my journey of foster parenting; had way too much sort of authority in speaking to something that I didn't have the experience for. And so I was just sharing about our journey, sharing about what it looked like to find hope on this journey and started writing and started being invited to share with other foster and adoptive parents in other spaces. And from that, I found myself sort of going to other places and getting to know foster parents on the other side of the country and realizing, I'm not doing this at home. I am not in community with other foster parents. I, you know, I'm seeking to bring hope and help to foster parents and not doing it in the people that I'm living side by side with. And so it built a conviction in me to do that at home. Started a support group, and the first night, 45 women showed up. And so it was a clear, like, oh, there's a need here. People need community, and they need support. And that's really the backbone of Foster The Family now is just gathering people together in mutual support, in training and equipping. And then as they're gathered, needs rise and we serve them and create, you know, programs around that. But that's the backbone, is just how do we gather people? And it was out of my experience of not having that, of not having community on this very unique journey of foster care and adoption, where you really do need people. You need people who understand, who see you, who can speak into your lack of hope, your sorrow and confusion. And so it really has been a gift to me personally to have that community. And I've really felt just a deep conviction that if I'm going to be in this space, I need to be working to gather people together so that they have that, rather than just sort of just sharing at them; that they are together and learning and growing and living together. [00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that living together piece is so, you know, a lot of us, I think, get into foster care or adoption, both, and we don't have that community in place, and it really is a lonely place. I'm just identifying so much with that. Your kind of early experience feeling that. [00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah, there's so much that's so unique. And I was surrounded by people who love me and who were supporting me of what I was doing, but did not understand, not because it was willful ignorance, but just because they couldn't understand. And being with people who understand it is such a gift. [00:05:35] Speaker A: I guess I'm thinking about a mom or dad that's listening right now to our conversation who might be feeling that way. Maybe they've just jumped into this journey, or maybe they've been persevering for a long time and are just feeling so weary and alone. What would you encourage them with? [00:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say that part of it is going to be our responsibility to try to seek and create when it doesn't exist. And, you know, some people, that's really easy for. Maybe you're a gatherer, but it could just be finding one person and building intentionally with them. You know, when I became a foster parent, I knew one other foster parent. She was over a decade older than I was, had nothing in common, and I just was kind of like, hey, will you be my friend? I don't know what I'm doing here. And really, I live the dream right now of something that I could have never created. I'm doing it with my siblings. I'm doing it with my best friends. And so I understand that that is a unique situation, and I know what it is to be alone and be ignorant and need help and support and just reach out to someone and say, will you give this to me? And then also to just create it. I created the support group literally, by going on a Facebook group and saying, 'can you meet me at this church this night to talk about foster care?' And I tend to be a gatherer, but everyone is capable of going on a support group page and saying, 'hey, is there anyone who can we start meeting for coffee?' It doesn't need to be formal. We don't need to be offering anything except ourselves. And it's just being together that, I think makes all the difference. [00:07:31] Speaker A: I love that encouragement you're giving us. It kind of reminds me of the way adult friendships happen in general. You know? Like, we all want someone to reach out to us, but we need the gatherers in my life. I'm so glad you are one, Jamie. And maybe if you're listening to this and you are a gatherer like Jamie, we need you guys in our lives. But there's. There's room for all of us to reach out. That's what I hear you saying. [00:07:59] Speaker B: There really is. And you know what? I love gathering people. I. Unless, let me sit across one person from coffee, other people, that's what they love. And we're all capable of going and finding that, and I think we need it. And when we're convinced we need something, I think we're more compelled to act on it. [00:08:18] Speaker A: You talk in Foster The Family book about the secret handshake. Tell me what that meant to you to have that. That secret handshake experience. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I love to think of using our hands in three different ways in relationship. One is reaching up, one is sort of linking arms, and the other is reaching out. And reaching up is looking for someone who has experience that you don't have. So that's my decade older than me. Nothing in common, but had the experience and saying, 'will you be my friend?' Linking arms is the, hey, we'll see someone sit across a cup of coffee and just talk with me. And then any time that you have been doing anything a little bit longer than someone else, you have experience and wisdom that you can offer them. And, you know, I think that there's a model in scripture for teaching the younger women. We see that just as a way for us to learn to live together. That mentorship is such a huge part of just being a person. And anytime we have just a little more experience, we can use that to serve someone else. Doesn't need to be formal. It could just be, 'hey, heard that you just became a foster parent. I would love to be available anytime you have questions.' 'Hey, I heard you just got placed with a child. Let me be the person that can bounce off questions with you.' So when we have those relationships, then we're sort of checking all the boxes of what it can and should look like to live in true community with people. [00:09:57] Speaker A: I love that, and I wish you lived in Memphis because I want to share a cup of coffee with you. Yeah. What a special thing to have in your life. And yet it is. It's simple. It's something that we can all do, and I love thinking about it this way. Your support groups through Foster The Family, I mean, they're all over the country, right? Tell me. Tell me how that works. [00:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah. We have 100 support groups in at least 35 states that may be growing. We just launched a handful more last week, and there are times that offer just 15 minutes or so of trauma-informed perspective on. It could be attachment, it could be navigating the system or creating a welcoming home, but we want to create a little bit of a foundational understanding of something, but then release people into the meat of the meetings, which is really just being together, so it's not sitting and just consuming content. We want you to learn something, but then more than that, we want you to talk together. We want you to build relationships. And so there's guided discussion, and they're just really sweet times. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Oh, I love that emphasis on community that you just keep coming back to. Okay, if you've read Jamie's book, the first chapter has to do with What Did I Do With My Life? And that resonated with me on many just different adult levels. I've thought that question about in response to a lot of choices I've made, but I love how you talk about these choices you've made have been worth it. And it sounds like community has kept you going through these years. You talk about doing this for over a decade. What else has kept you going and persevering through this? You know, the hard parts of foster care and adoption and parenting. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is the most important chapter of that book and the thing that is nearest to my heart. We have all these lessons for foster care and adoption. For me, it is having a solid why. Why this is all worth it. That can really bolster us through the hardest parts. When we have a solid foundation of why we're doing something well, then that is what gives us hope for it all. That is what brings it all in. Accurate perspective. I could look at my life and say, what have I done in my life? Aptly named chapter, I just wipe butts and show up for principles and calm down. Freaking out kids all day, every day. If you only live once, like, why do this? And so I actually think that we need to be able to answer that. It can't just be like, oh, this is this thing I'm doing. And it's important. Why is it important? Know your why. Define your why and keep coming back to your why. So, for me, it's the kids, obviously. It's that kids are inherently precious, that they are worthy of us spending up our lives on that. They just have such value in them. And getting to be a part of their healing, getting to be a part of their redemption stories is just a gift. It's their families. And whether it's through foster care or adoption, seeing a greater redemptive story in our kids families, when we have a strong understanding of the family and how valuable that is to the God who created it, how valuable it is to our kids, our foster and adopted children, that their families play a huge part in their stories, then being a part of the redemptive work in their story is a huge piece. And then for me, just the faith pieces is so huge. I have to believe that there's something that makes it all worth it. And my answer is ultimately theological. My answer is ultimately that. That I believe that whatever I do, no matter the outcome, no matter if it seems valuable in the moment, that if I'm doing it in worship to my God, that it is inherently worth it. And so that gives value to the times where we feel like something failed, where we feel like we failed, where we're not seeing the outcomes that we would hope for. That in and of itself, anything done for God is worth it and lasts. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I love digging into the motivation and the expectation kind of from the very beginning, at the very base part of us. Okay. It's reminding me of something I saw on your social media recently. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:01] Speaker A: And I want you to unpack it for us because I thought it was really valuable. When I was reading about it, you said, 'I wish the term foster to adopt was abolished.' And then you go on to say, 'it's more than semantics, it's intention.' Okay, tell me. Tell us a little bit about that, because I think that also digs into our why. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So that is a hot button sort of thing to say. And I think it's worth saying. I signed up, I think, officially, in New Jersey as a foster to adopt parent. And so I know that for some people, it's just a box that they're checking and there really is no shame. I've adopted three kids, soon to be a fourth out of the foster care system. I believe in not disrupting that attachment that happens in foster care and being able to step in an adoption. I think it is the intention. It is when we are coming into a situation where there is a broken family and we are signing up to, hopefully, potentially, maybe it'll happen, that we'll get to keep them. And before anyone thinks that I'm bringing shame there, I want to confess first. That is how I came into foster care. I thought that reunification was the worst case scenario. That's what happens when these kids have to go back to their bad parents and they don't get to stay with me. So I. Wherever someone is on the spectrum of how they feel about reunification, how they feel about their kids parents, I've been there. Sometimes I'm there still in a day. So I'm all over the place still even withholding this in a really deep conviction. But I know that a lot of foster parents end up really frustrated, heartbroken, because they really are coming into foster care to build their family rather than build, rebuild a broken family. And the goal of the foster care system, the intention of all of the workers and players in it, and what I think can be, especially for people of faith, and we see that God created the family and it's sacred and he loves redemption and restoration, that the goal is and should be for the primary family to be healed. And I think it is near impossible to be hoping and praying and wishing that you get to keep a kid forever because you love them while radically supporting, caring for, loving and praying for reunification. And so while it will happen, while there will be times where we pray and support and families, there just isn't enough time. There isn't enough change and we then joyfully step in to this child's forever story. I think it's where we start, that we start in a position that our primary intention and focus is for a family to be healed. And once we answer the question of if that family is going to be able to do it in enough time that's fair for that child, then we can switch our perspective, but not until that point that we don't plan for, imagine about, and wish for a family to be broken. The most heartbreaking thing that I can imagine for a child to be separated from parents forever. And it's not just about second chances for parents. It's about these kids getting to have redemption in their family stories. And it's about really having a holistic and for believers, a biblical view of what the family is and throwing ourselves radically into being a part of that family being healed. [00:19:11] Speaker A: I just love that you have kind of rejected the simplistic way of looking at this and have tried to dig into the complexity of what it all involves. I mean, okay, it's making me wonder. Another question, and I wonder if you'd help us as listeners, whether we're in the foster care world or adjacent to it, or totally hearing about it for the first time. Maybe we randomly played this podcast episode. What are other phrases or words or ways of talking about things in the foster care world that we can be thinking about? Just in terms of not wanting to oversimplify or wanting to honor the complexity, honor everyone that's involved? [00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I love what you're sharing there, because it is complex, which means if we have a simple answer, we're ignoring another piece. And so I love to consider just the both/and of everything in foster care and adoption, the both/and man kids need to be protected. That is a priority that we have to have. And sometimes that means removing them from their families. And kids should have that connection with their first family. Families should be healed whenever possible. We know that it's really formative for our kids identities and their stories to know their family. And so when we hold this both and yeah, it is just beautiful when a family is formed through adoption and there's great loss there for that child, for their family, for even the adoptive family. In every one of these things, it's never simple as one thing. It's trauma and healing, it's love and loss. It's all these things. And we have to get really good at living intention and not just holding one thing and rejecting another. And for me, it's. It doesn't come simply. It's not like, oh, yeah, I'm really good at holding all these things. It's a constant reorienting to the end. It's a renewing your mind and going back over and over to the end of what's going on here when I feel only like, I wish I didn't just get moments ago. True story. A last minute text from the worker that they're going to be picking kiddo up from school for a visit when he hasn't seen mom in three months. Okay. That is one thing that I feel very deeply. I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm worried. And he misses his mom. She deserves to see her son. She is clean enough to see him right now. There are both of those things happening at once, and typically one of them is coming up very easily and very strongly for me, feel it in my heart and my body. And so then I have to do the work to reorient my mind to the end so that I can hold both of those things in tension. And I think, you know, anytime we're holding anything really strongly in this space, we should be asking ourselves, is there an and here? Is there something else that my mind should be focusing on to. To make sure that I'm nothing simplifying something that's really complex. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Oh, that's so good. I even just hear this. I mean, you guys, I've just met Jamie, and so we're new friends, but I'm just already hearing this in our conversation. You're reorienting and your growth along your journey. I mean, the way that you talk about. I used to think this, or when I started, I was like this. What are the primary ways that you have ended up growing in this journey? What have you sought out? What is ended up transforming you as you. As you've been along your way? [00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let's just mention real quick what we've already spent a bunch of time on, which is community. When you are weary and you can't reorient yourself, you need someone who's going to do that for you. And so someone who can remind you of the things that you believe when you don't feel them. And so that's a huge piece. We want people to weep with us and commiserate with us, and we need people to speak truth to us to help us reorient our hearts. So that's a huge piece. Therapy. Let's talk therapy. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Let's talk therapy. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Making sure that we are doing the work to, you know, when I am in a dysregulated state all the time, and I am in survival, and I am not thinking true thoughts about my everyday life. It is nearly impossible for me to reorient to truth, for me to reorient to what I believe, even when I'm not feeling it. So really doing the work to fight for regulation, to fight for mental health, I think that's a huge piece. And then for me, just as a believer, as a Christian, being in God's word is the ultimate grounding, because my feelings are all over the place. My thoughts, the situations are all over the place. I need something that is true no matter what, and I believe that God's word is true no matter what. And so that is a huge piece. All right, this is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm thinking. I believe that this is what is most real. And so I am going to put on what I'm reading here, and that's been a huge part of my journey, just spending time in God's word every morning and fighting to find the places where it speaks directly to me as a foster parent. Even though the words foster care are not in the Bible, the concepts of just love and trust and patience, forgiveness, all these things just lend themselves to my journey of foster parenting. [00:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So speaking of that, I feel like that's. That's something that you've kind of poured yourself into in your new book that's about to come out. In fact, I think that our listeners are listening to this episode on the day that your book is dropping. So tell us a little bit about your new book that you've written. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So Filled is devotional for foster parents, and it's really just a verse, a Bible verse that is expounded on how it applies specifically to us. So we know that God's word is living and active, and it speaks to us clearly, but it can feel like, what does this have to do with my everyday life? You know, I'm dealing with saying goodbye to a child after two years. Like, how do I find anything in this book for me? And when I. You see that God's word applies to every season, every person, and see that ultimately, it's not even a story about us. It's a story about God. And when we just come and know him, then we see that there are truths about him, about life, and about ourselves that apply to foster parenting. So it's 60 short readings that take the common struggles and a lot of the stories that we've experienced in our ten years of foster parenting and just applies the Bible to a lot of the struggles that we have as foster parents. [00:27:01] Speaker A: I love that. I know there are Christian parents that are listening to this that are going to find a lot of hope and encouragement and probably challenge from what you've written. So I'm excited that that's dropping today. [00:27:13] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Tell me a little bit about. Okay, so you talked about part of. Part of that aspect of reorienting to the and is fighting for our mental health, fighting for, you know, as we're doing the work ourselves. And it reminds me of this chapter that you have in your first book that talks about self care isn't selfish. And I think self care, I mean, obviously it's a trendy topic and idea these days, but especially for Christian parents, I do think sometimes there is this idea that self care is selfish, and so help us unpack that a little bit. How do we fight for our well being in this idea of self care? [00:28:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that everyone is sort of talking about it all of the time now, and I still think that we often don't understand it. You know, hash, self care is like, I got a manicure, right? And that is not what self care is about. It is about taking care of ourselves. And the reason it's important for us and the reason that it's not selfish is that it, first of all, is just grounded in understanding our humanness. It is just grounded in humility, that we cannot do all the things, we cannot be all the things for all the people. And we need to slow down. We need to acknowledge our God given limitations and the rhythms of our bodies and creation, that there are just things that we have to say, submit to in humility. I have gone long periods of time on 4 hours of sleep. That is not just stupid, it's arrogant. It is believing that I can go beyond the way that God created my body to function. And who loses there is me, certainly. But the reason that it's not selfish is it's not just me. It is my children, it is my family really end up losing out when I'm not taking care of myself. So I have had periods of what I would really consider secondary traumatic stress syndrome, like PTSD, but in the secondary sense, and not even secondary, because when you have loss, when you have sleepless nights, when you have kids operating in violence and living in fear, you are also experiencing primary trauma. This isn't just secondary trauma. Yeah, but that experience has left me depleted. I've had seasons of living in survival mode where I am not able to think clearly where I'm not able to meet people's needs and stay attuned the way they need me to, where I'm not living in joy, where my stress is causing stress for others. It has. It's hurt my children before in the way that I have just lived, as if I can do all the things. And so I have had to work to practice really intentional self care that is motivated by humility and then my love for them. [00:30:40] Speaker A: So good. I'm just picturing people driving in their cars or folding their laundry, listening to them and the vulnerability that you're sharing that with. Like, we have all been there. Every parent has experienced that kind of depletion. Yeah, I'm just connecting with it. I know others are, too. Tell me a little bit. I mean, this is just a Jamie question, but what fills your tank? Like, how do you, when you're depleted? And let's. Let's not say, like, crisis mode, just on a regular basis. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Sure. Sure. [00:31:13] Speaker A: What are your favorite ways to care for yourself and fill your tank? [00:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have answers for crisis mode, which is, like, acting like you're sick and need to get well. Oh, that's good. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Okay, tell us about that first. Yeah. [00:31:28] Speaker B: Yeah. I've been there before where I am not well, and I need to actually get well. And so that looked like therapy. It looked like really intensive rest. It looked like reprioritizing and cutting some things out. But for the everyday, I like to use reading as sort of like a barometer for how well I'm doing it at caring for myself, because. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Tell me about this. Well, I do, too, so let's talk about it. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I love to read. And if I am reading a lot, if my, you know, not just to be read pile, but my read pile is big, then I know, like, okay, I'm prioritizing this. I'm prioritizing time of sitting and not just being a machine that does for people but takes time to recharge. I'm also recharging my mind and heart with the things that I'm actually reading. Um, so that's a huge thing for me. It's something I enjoy. It's something that I think serves me, uh, as I'm, you know, learning and growing from what I read. And it's a good test for me. If I say I haven't read a book in a month, then it means that I haven't sat down in a month. [00:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:40] Speaker B: It means I haven't prioritized that. [00:32:42] Speaker A: I love that litmus test or, like, your little kind of warning light that it's like, wait, hold on a second. But it's external. You're not relying upon, you know, knowing how you feel on the inside. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's very smart. [00:32:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And it might, for other people, it might be related to community or diet or exercise that those things, if you're like, oh, I've been just, you know, eating while I'm standing up and not, not considering what I'm eating throughout the day. Whatever. The ways that you sort of can monitor how well you're doing, an intentional caring for yourself, I think we can often find something that is a little more tangible to consider as a barometer. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so good. If your lunch is peanut butter sandwich crusts for example. [00:33:34] Speaker B: While you're standing. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Right, exactly. Crushed up goldfish. Exactly. Tell me about the Filled conference. And I'm going to guess maybe this came as an opportunity to allow parents to care for themselves too. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Filled is such a special time. We gather foster adoptive kinship moms and this year it's going to be 1200 women in Pennsylvania. And so there's first of all, just the experience of walking into a room with 1200 other women who share similar journeys. I mean, you're sitting across from people at meals, at lunch, and you know, one person's like, 'I have eleven kids' and the other person's like, 'I have a kiddo in residential right now' and someone else is, 'I've been waiting for three years for my kiddo to come home.' And everyone, you don't define, you don't excuse, you can just say who you are. And it's really a beautiful experience. But we spend a lot of time together in having a lot of fun, really intentional fun and rest and laughter. There's biblical teaching. We love to hear from people sort of on the other side of so not just foster adoptive parents, but we love to hear from biological parents and former foster youth and adoptees and just learn from them. And we get to do that in every session and get to just hear other perspectives and then lots of practical breakouts, lots of just equipping you for your journey, connecting you to resources. And it is my favorite weekend of the year. It's really special. And one thing I love, you said, you know, as a way to fill your cup. I love how people come on their own sometimes and leave with like their people. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Now they have a group, we have women who the first year were thrown together in a room when we used to do that. Now we're at a beautiful hotel and everyone gets their own space and all that. But I. And they are each other's like Marco Polo all day text for years now. And there are those kinds of stories of people coming alone and leaving with relationships that last far beyond it. And that's a really special part, too. [00:36:02] Speaker A: That's so special. I also love just seeing, I mean, you guys can't see Jamie's face. It lit up when I said Filled conference. And so I can tell that is just a source of joy for you. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really, it's really special. And we used to call it the Filled Retreat because it started with 80 women and it really was a very intimate retreat. And then we were like, what do we call this when it's a thousand women? Because it's. It's still a retreat. We still eat our meals together. We have fun together. There's so many special pieces, but it is. It's huge. Now there's a lot of people, which means a lot more opportunities for the very best voices. You know, I speak all over all the time and I get to hear people all the time. And when I hear them, I tap them and say, 'please join us at Filled.' So I love getting to bring, I think, the people who have just the most encouragement to offer and just share their stories with vulnerability and share truth with power. And so I love it. [00:37:07] Speaker A: I love that. I think gathering is your superpower, Jamie. I mean, it is the thing that you're good at, but also I can tell it just brings you life, too, which you've done it in all these different conviction. [00:37:20] Speaker B: It's not, it's something that I think is important. And I love to get to be a part of that. For people who so often feel alone, so often feel alone and confused, I think that that may be unique to us as foster and adoptive parents. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah. So if you're listening and you're feeling alone today as a foster or adoptive parent, I mean, it sounds like there are support groups that foster the family offers across the country that you could plug into, man, there's some real encouragement and like her subtitle says, practical help in Foster The Family, Jamie's first book. And it sounds like some biblical reorienting of the. And that's going to be offered in your new book, Filled and, man, the filled conference sounds like an amazing place for women who are feeling alone in their journeys, too. Well, as we are finishing up and wrapping up our episode, tell me, what's your greatest hope for the parents that are listening today? [00:38:30] Speaker B: My greatest hope for parents is that they see beyond today, that they see beyond the trials and maybe even the joys of today. That it's not just about where we are in our journey, where our kids are in their healing. That we see for the christian just the hope of heaven. That everything that we do matters and echoes into eternity. That when we do it for the glory of God, it is worship that is inherently meaningful and eternal, and for all of us, just that. But it is about so much more than we see right now. That healing happens over long periods of time. That there is hope because today is not all there is. That as we're loving our children, serving our children, fighting for their healing, that it's for the long term, even in foster care, even when we're saying goodbye, that we are doing something that is about so much more than what we're doing in the moment, so much more than today. And so having that long term big picture perspective, I think changes everything for the hard and happy of our today's. [00:39:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. Thank you, Jamie, for joining us today. Thank you for being a gatherer in the small and big ways in our world. And thank you for being an encourager too. As somebody who's changing and sharing what you learn as you're transformed, we appreciate you. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it was really sweet to get to talk with you and I really appreciate this time. I love getting to do this and just leave encouraged myself. So thanks. [00:40:21] Speaker A: We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music, on behalf of everyone at etc. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together.